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Old 20-01-2008, 04:27   #61
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Originally Posted by Jeannius View Post
... Who wants to go to windward on a cruise?
Nobody.

ie:
“The Gentleman’s Guide to Passages South” ~ By Bruce Van Sant
The “Gentleman” in the guide’s title is a reference to the old maxim that “gentlemen don’t sail to weather”, but unfortunately the “Thorny” passage from Florida to the Caribbean is mostly to weather. Van Sant purports to describe the “Thornless Path to Windward”.
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Old 20-01-2008, 04:33   #62
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Who wants to go to windward on a cruise.
I must not be living right. The thing at the top of the spar that everyone calls a wind indicator always seems to point to where I'm going.
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Old 20-01-2008, 07:13   #63
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Big Cat is correct that adequate bouyancy can be designed with plumb bows - my point was with respect to the delta, or change in bouyancy as the bows are depressed while surfing into the trough of a wave in extreme conditions (or depressing the leeward bow in gusts and high seas). As the bows are depressed, front overhang, knuckles and flare (I'm stuck with my likely incorrect use of terminology) above the waterline all tend to increase bouyancy when and where it is most needed. Plumb bows without any of the foregoing work fine if the bows extend well beyond the bridgedeck, carry very little weight/accomodation and are not too fine/narrow (eg, the Outremer series of catamarans).

The original question related to the seaworthiness of smaller, less expensive, used cats. In these boats the bridgdeck and accomodation all tend to be moved forward and hence, overhang, knuckles and flare are all useful design attributes. I should also add that these same features create drier decks - important if you need to go forward to inspect rigging, deal with a jambed furler, etc. Finally, if your anchoring arrangement is off the bows rather than the leading edge of the bridgedeck, you will get much less damage to the topsides when raising anchor. Really, a 'win-win-win' for the type of boat he is looking for.

I should also echo some of the earlier posts and recommend used Prouts and Cherokees as being suitable for his budget and needs. One could also add Catalacs (although the complete lack of windward performance and the large portlights are negatives) and even the Gemini, although I would have some serious concerns about its use for offshore passages (yes I know, they have successfully crossed the Atlantic).

Brad
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Old 20-01-2008, 07:40   #64
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Thank you, Brad. Very informative. This whole thread has been great reading and has really helped me to understand the basics of moving from a monohull to a catamaran.

I'm pretty excited!!
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Old 20-01-2008, 07:55   #65
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Uh oh, Dave!! I alreayd "unselected" the Gulfstar. Sold her in November!

She was too expensive for us (big loan).

I still don't see the big deal about twin engines... what do I need them for when I'm not docking?
Maybe not often, but you will be docking, picking up mooring balls, maneuvering about in tight quarters, etc.

But the more important reason has already been answered by others - redundancy. BTW, as someone also already mentioned, motoring with one engine is typical. Running the second for me only adds about another knot and a half. Clearly not worth the fuel and wear and tear.
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Old 20-01-2008, 08:50   #66
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My son, David, has done all of the editing into a final cut that is 1 hour twenty minutes long. I just saw the final cut last week. He will be putting the voice overs on it ASAP, and then it will be almost ready. He constructed the animations and they are looking good. The final step is writing the music and performing it on drums, synthsizer, guitar etc. He is a musician, and so the music part is his favorite part of the project. He also has four or five special features that he will put in if there is room on the DVD. He is learning a great deal by doing this project. I congratulate him what he has accomplished. Hopefully, he will have it ready to go in the next six or eight weeks.
First off Dave / Maxxing Out, excellent analysis as to the multiple advantages of running with twin engines.

Secondly, have your son PM me regarding his DVD. I met you guys at the Seven Seas stop in Melbourne, FL.. I make the SurfNRG videos (13 so far) and have an excellent connection for the best price on replications. I enjoyed previewing parts of the video at your seminar - including the humorous sections that makes cruising look so much fun.
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Old 20-01-2008, 08:58   #67
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Well, a major downside will be; Because your cockpit and salon is so much larger than the monos a good deal of the sundowners will be conducted on your boat. This will result in massive quantities of your ice being consummed! So much so, that many have resorted to getting dedicated ice makers installed in their cats!!,necesitating the installation of a watermaker and addition energy generating devices to feed it all!

Keith
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Old 20-01-2008, 10:23   #68
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I hope So

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Have a look at you tube, search for catamaran and storm. I saw one of a cat in, if memory serves, a 50 knt storm and the wife was happily typing away on the computer without anything to steady her elbows. Can't have been too bad to do that
If you take the comment at face value & follow the nodding heads, You could think that the boat/crew survived the Perfect Storm. Maxingout sailing downwind & following seas is not an extraordinary example of capabilities. It's a seaworthy boat sailed by capable sailors. There are a lot of boats even the "dreaded" monohulls that would be right along with them.
I would certainly hope that a Catamaran costing significantly more than a monohull of the same length & with its design advantages would be able to handle that example just as it did.

Unless you plan to sail downwind everyday, adding video of beam seas or upwind would be more "honest" to form a complete picture. Having sailed both, it's an apples to oranges comparison. One is not better and the other terrible, they are just different.

With the current trend toward Cats, those passionate advocates seemed to have an unlimited supply of prosletizing energy. Try to stick with the balanced & sober advantages + disadvantages (many offered here) while avoiding the high extremes.
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Old 20-01-2008, 11:43   #69
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Windward voyages

Other famously windward voyages are from New Zealand back to the West Coast USA & Canada, and up the Red Sea to the Med. But it is true that those planning voyages normally do what they can to avoid windward work. I did also once do the fabled "beating off a lee shore in a hurricane--a little, praise be, hurricane."

"the “Thorny” passage from Florida to the Caribbean is mostly to weather. Van Sant purports to describe the “Thornless Path to Windward”."
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Old 20-01-2008, 12:46   #70
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[quote=Jeannius;127411]
I believe there were something like 400 Snowgeese launched and not one has ever gone over. Structural failure is almost unheard of as they were very solidly built. Sadly one was abandoned on an Atlantic crossing in November after the rig came down and punched a hole in the hull but I suspect that it is probably still afloat and approaching the Caribbean around now!

The number may be closer to 500 with around 100 cicumnavigations. I wonder if the number of circumnavigations and the safety record could be matched by any other production boat mono or multi.
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Old 20-01-2008, 20:59   #71
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First off Dave / Maxxing Out, excellent analysis as to the multiple advantages of running with twin engines.

Secondly, have your son PM me regarding his DVD. I met you guys at the Seven Seas stop in Melbourne, FL.. I make the SurfNRG videos (13 so far) and have an excellent connection for the best price on replications. I enjoyed previewing parts of the video at your seminar - including the humorous sections that makes cruising look so much fun.
I will have David get in contact with you. Do you have any segments of your surfing DVDs on U-tube or any of the other video sites? I would like to check them out.
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Old 20-01-2008, 21:07   #72
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this must surely be a trick question but ill attemp to answer it if you first answer my question what do call a dear with no eyes?
sean
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Old 21-01-2008, 01:28   #73
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From an original article when the 'goose first came out you can expect boat speed to be half the wind speed. See the article via 'Multihullworld' where they have a 'goose listed at 50k sterling which looks as goos as the day it was made and is about the same price as the day it was made. There's a link in there to the article.
My brother ran one for three years and apart from the low roof and rather dark interior he never saw anything better. I'm looking at the Event 34footer which has more of a greenhouse than a saloon but shares many of the 'goose features such as kitchen in a hull at eye level with the saloon, rear mast which concentrates all the sailing in the dry safe bit, sonic drive leg which slews 30 degrees either way by a foot lever to assist in manouvreing. The event costs half as much again but is more modern and slightly slower. From what I've seen the bigger the cabin the slower the boat. Prout's don't sink, the dinghy can be huge, the toilets are suitable for people, the kitchen and office space is comfortable to use, even in heavier weather, and speed is limited by jumping off the top of waves at above ten knots or so. Faintest breze will give a hundred miles a day but do consider light weather sails, the parasail or good, modern material genaker to get the best out of light airs.
Ron Underwood, MD of Prout and now at Broadblue, reckons they are suited to a forty mast. This can be done with an extension at the bottom, and take the opportunity to go for plastic rigging when the stainless stuff is due for replacement as the performance will be better than most cruisers.
I've just been looking at Deisel Cooking and Heating. Both are really well sorted now with exterior venting of 'fumes' and soot and moisture so there is the option of getting gas completely off the boat and use the deisel you already have.
There is a new forward looking depth, fish, wreck, bottom finder just out that allows much safe investigation of the nooks and crannys that excite the cruisers and allow you to be sure of the bottom.
Slipways are rarely needed, just go for CopperCoat and beach every three months to wipe it clean.
Anchoring is easier and cheaper, your dinghy is bigger better more convenient to use than off an equivalent mono and if you're not humping gas bottles about there shouldn't be too much trouble shifting your stores on board.
Depending on your planned trips I'd take a water maker but only use it on extended trips where the water needed is significant in terms of weight.
And on longer trips kit your dinghy out as your survivial boat. Solar panels with a built in battery with electric outboard. Stow a pocket held GPS, VHF and the water maker and dry food and fishing lines and you'll suvive. Add a small sail or kite and you'll arrive alot faster than drifting along and you won't drift half a mile passed that island.
The electric outboard will get you through the gap in the reef and to the best landing place, the kite will seriously extend the range of your radio. The cost is still pretty small.
I'll be doing the Med to start with, but NZ looks beautifull and there's relatives in Auss. See you.
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Old 21-01-2008, 02:11   #74
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this must surely be a trick question but ill attemp to answer it if you first answer my question what do call a dear with no eyes?
sean
'NO IDEA' OR 'NO EYED DEER' whichever way you want to spell or pronounce it.


My turn:

When babies are born, why do they smack their bottoms??
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Old 21-01-2008, 09:41   #75
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Quote:
what do call a dear with no eyes?
Don't you mean a dear with no A's?
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