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Old 24-11-2013, 16:17   #16
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Re: Don't use the main?

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Originally Posted by RichandHelen View Post
The latest issue of "Sail" awards the Lagoon 39 as "Boat of the year" in its class. A lot of the credit goes to the farther aft-placed mast. This give the boat a smaller, more manageable mainsail. The magazine states that many multihull captains frequently don't use their main for just that reason - it's just too large and difficult to handle.

Is this true in your experience?
How is tacking a larger genoa more manageable than tacking a larger self tacking mainsail?

Maybe it's easier to unfurl a headsail than raise or lower a mainsail, but when it comes to tacking I am not sure how you can beat not having to trim jib sheets.

Any of the single handed racing boats all have fractional rigs with big giant mainsails and relatively small headsails.

Wonder if Lagoon advertises in "Sail" magazine, that would certainly make things more manageable.
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Old 24-11-2013, 16:56   #17
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Re: Don't use the main?

Yep good old sail magazine!
From now on I will sail with a reefed main and a 155%
There is nothing like trimming a big headsail to improve my sailing pleasure.
Maybe I will add a blooper for those leisurely downwind runs.
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Old 24-11-2013, 20:18   #18
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Re: Don't use the main?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichandHelen View Post
The latest issue of "Sail" awards the Lagoon 39 as "Boat of the year" in its class. A lot of the credit goes to the farther aft-placed mast. This give the boat a smaller, more manageable mainsail. The magazine states that many multihull captains frequently don't use their main for just that reason - it's just too large and difficult to handle.

Is this true in your experience?
The main sail is called a main sail because it is the main sail on the boat. To me that means it is the biggest sail on the boat. This is not to say I don't fly a great big screecher if the wind is less than 15 knots or so. I have all the lines running back to the steering stations in the cockpit. My main is a square top and no doubt it is a job to raise it, especially since I have to be careful to to make sure the battens clear the lazy jacks. But the performance makes the effort worth while.

Keep in mind that what I will call old salts sometimes think multihull guys are the new guys on the block and don't really understand seamanship. So the multihull guys have to use trick rigs to make up for their lack of skill.

I am old school. If I thought my mainsail was to big and hard to use I would get a smaller boat.
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Old 25-11-2013, 01:01   #19
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Re: Don't use the main?

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Originally Posted by Delancey View Post
How is tacking a larger genoa more manageable than tacking a larger self tacking mainsail?
The standard headsails on the Lagoon 39 and 52 are selftacking.
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Old 25-11-2013, 01:39   #20
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Re: Don't use the main?

Next Americas boat will be genoa only.
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Old 25-11-2013, 03:44   #21
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Re: Don't use the main?

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
....................our 'twin identical genoas' "wing a wing"................
How do you rig these. Do you use a twin luff groove forestay, or is one of them rigged on an additional temporary forestay?

Do you use spinaker poles to hold them out as well?
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Old 25-11-2013, 03:47   #22
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Re: Don't use the main?

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Next Americas boat will be genoa only.
No, its better to let the 40 m wings stay on the AC cats and the furling genoas on our slow cruisers, than the revese ...

Yes - I did buy a mainsail 7 sq m larger than the standard sail from Lagoon.. and have no trouble handling it.
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Old 25-11-2013, 05:38   #23
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Re: Don't use the main?

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The standard headsails on the Lagoon 39 and 52 are selftacking.
Your right, it does.

Holy crap! 26,000 lbs displacement for a 38'6" catamaran? +800 square feet of sail area? Maybe if it wasn't such a pig you wouldn't have to worry about having manageable sails so much?
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Old 25-11-2013, 05:52   #24
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Re: Don't use the main?

My 42' catamaran (condomaran?) was designed with the mast further aft resting on the boxbeam that divides the salon from the cockpit and has no mainsail. Currently I only have two headsails - a 100% and a somewhat smaller headsail for stronger winds. The designer/builder, Nigel Roberts, states up front that they are 'downwind boats'. Hopefully I am getting close to actually trying to sail it. Nigel suggests that once I master the smaller sails, I could get a larger one. Eventually I can rerig the boat to take a spinnaker of some kind as it can only have one sail up on the bridle rigged forestay currently - there is no hardware to fly a kite type sail at the moment - and I have never used one in any event. I expect a steep learning curve since my certificate in 30' keelboats is some years out of date now. Hopefully the boat will sail downwind and reach with just the headsail. Here in the Philippines the wind usually blows from the northeast for five months and then from the southwest for five months with the two months being somewhat variable during the change. I hope to master the timing so I just sail up/down the coasts of the major islands going with the wind and don't need to sail against the wind - who knows, this may even work.
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Old 25-11-2013, 09:17   #25
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Re: Don't use the main?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RichandHelen View Post
The latest issue of "Sail" awards the Lagoon 39 as "Boat of the year" in its class. A lot of the credit goes to the farther aft-placed mast. This give the boat a smaller, more manageable mainsail. The magazine states that many multihull captains frequently don't use their main for just that reason - it's just too large and difficult to handle.

Is this true in your experience?
I suspect that Sail magazine's "boat of the year" awards have as much to do with marketing as merit. It's hard to judge a boat's sailing abilities when you take it out for an afternoon sail in 6 knots of wind.

Keep in mind that the further aft the main is, the longer the headstay and the smaller the backstay angle. This is going to make it harder to achieve a tight headstay, and ability to point will suffer.

"many multihull captains frequently don't use their main for just that reason" I wonder where this comes from. Maybe true in the Caribbean charter fleet but I have not seen this among multihull owners unless running downwind.
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Old 25-11-2013, 10:16   #26
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Re: Don't use the main?

While I agree with those who regard a mainsail as essential for most sailing, for downwind tradewind sailing I would probably use twin headsails or a spinnaker to reduce mainsail chafe on the shrouds and to give a stable airflow onto the headsails. A big roached main does shed a lot of turbulence onto the foresails which gives problems in keeping them stable when off the wind greater than 120 degrees.

Having had a cat with 200% genoa and a no roached main and now 2 boats 7/8 rigged with big roached mains and smaller blade jibs, the performance advantage and ease on handling for the latter sells it to me and I would not go along the Prout/Broadblue road.

However, for chartering, often with inexperienced crews, the big roached main of modern cats probably looks scary, especially as 90% of the mono charter boats have in mast furling which will seem safer. Yes, it will mean they will use the engine more, but they do anyway wind or no wind. So I can see why Lagoon have followed this path, but it's not for me
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Old 25-11-2013, 15:00   #27
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Re: Don't use the main?

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Originally Posted by RichandHelen View Post
The magazine states that many multihull captains frequently don't use their main for just that reason - it's just too large and difficult to handle.
Anyone who has ever sailed the Bahamas or Caribbean will know that many monohull captains have the same issue. I swear I never saw a mainsail hoisted throughout the Bahamas.

The majority of production cats being made today come with electric winches. I don't see how a "large" mainsail matters there. Even without them, most are double-purchase systems.

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Old 25-11-2013, 15:21   #28
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Re: Don't use the main?

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Holy crap! 26,000 lbs displacement for a 38'6" catamaran? +800 square feet of sail area?
This cannot be correct. It just cannot be. It is so wrong that I refuse to google it. I mean, this is the same sail area and displacement as a Formosa 41!

A Formosa 41!

If by some unholy alliance of French boat builders and Canadian lead miners this turns out to be actually true, then I propose that we no longer refer to this boat as a "multihull".

It should now be referred to as a "twin monohull". I would even propose that it not be referred to as a sailboat, since I suspect that CF member "MarkPierce"'s Coot could handily out-sail it with his engine in reverse.

And it should be put far ahead of Hunters, CQR anchors, Bondo repair jobs and Xantrex products when it comes time on CF for heaping derision on something.

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Old 25-11-2013, 15:36   #29
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Re: Don't use the main?

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SNIP

It should now be referred to as a "twin monohull".
I love it when peeps start making up words.
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Old 25-11-2013, 15:51   #30
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Re: Don't use the Main?

Love It Mark!!

sail magazine ZERO credibility
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