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Old 30-12-2010, 14:44   #31
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The women I've known say it's not the size of the boat but the motion of the ocean... I'm not sure how it is with cats though.
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Old 30-12-2010, 16:03   #32
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It really comes back to your cruising intentions. In many areas with easy access for reprovisioning a 40ft cat would be adequate. (Aust coast/Caribbean)
For cruising in the Pacific a 45 ft vessel with the ability to carry more fuel and stores and dive compressor /diving gear means some real advantage to vessel with larger payload.
Just read the many blogs of sailors who were beholden to having to reprovision regularly (particularly fuel).
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Old 30-12-2010, 16:35   #33
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PBLAIS,

Good comments all! My having previously made the argument that you CAN handle a larger boat, I thought I'd throw in what my wife and I did instead.

We have lived aboard and/or cruised our Searunner 34 for 15 years, and most of my adult life, I did not own a home. My boats were it!

We consider our 34' trimaran about as small a boat as we would care to live on full time, and it did require having the expense of a storage building on occasions, for extra tools, off season clothes, records, extra boat gear, etc.

It has seemed marginal at times, especially when we were in a colder place than the FL. Keys. We have kept the accoutrement's comfortable, but light and simple. What we really missed was the payload for more books, but with E books, this is no longer a problem.

After years of seriously wishing for a larger boat, we have now come to realize that our boat is just right. At least for us. We are 56, and I have a lot of old injuries. It isn't the cruising that will be the deal breaker for us someday, it's the expense and maintenance.

Having built the boat, we obviously do all of our own work. This weekend it is the diesel's injector pump, over the winter it's the standing rigging, and next summer it's the bottom paint. In season, every time we go sailing, I dive on the bottom and wipe it down.

We would like, in our old age, to own a house, as WELL as our boat. If it was a 40'er, I don't think it would be possible, not with us doing our own work.

The real bummer about a smaller boat, is the extra motion. We can adapt to less creature comforts. (although we do have "memory Foam"). It is just a matter of thinking more like backpackers than RVers.

So we've gone full circle, and now say: "the best size boat is the smallest boat that will safely fulfill your needs". Even if you can afford larger, you will probably enjoy cruising more if you are forced to go to the island laundromat, or washing lady, and hit the local grocery store every day. A smaller boat encourages you to get out and mingle with the locals. It is more of an adventure!

What size IS a smaller boat, would vary among different people and their needs. It's a personal choice.

I just thought I'd throw that in there...

Mark
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Old 30-12-2010, 16:41   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Johnson View Post
PBLAIS,

Good comments all! My having previously made the argument that you CAN handle a larger boat, I thought I'd throw in what my wife and I did instead.

We have lived aboard and/or cruised our Searunner 34 for 15 years, and most of my adult life, I did not own a home. My boats were it!

We consider our 34' trimaran about as small a boat as we would care to live on full time, and it did require having the expense of a storage building on occasions, for extra tools, off season clothes, records, extra boat gear, etc.

It has seemed marginal at times, especially when we were in a colder place than the FL. Keys. We have kept the accoutrement's comfortable, but light and simple. What we really missed was the payload for more books, but with E books, this is no longer a problem.

After years of seriously wishing for a larger boat, we have now come to realize that our boat is just right. At least for us. We are 56, and I have a lot of old injuries. It isn't the cruising that will be the deal breaker for us someday, it's the expense and maintenance.

Having built the boat, we obviously do all of our own work. This weekend it is the diesel's injector pump, over the winter it's the standing rigging, and next summer it's the bottom paint. In season, every time we go sailing, I dive on the bottom and wipe it down.

We would like, in our old age, to own a house, as WELL as our boat. If it was a 40'er, I don't think it would be possible, not with us doing our own work.

The real bummer about a smaller boat, is the extra motion. We can adapt to less creature comforts. (although we do have "memory Foam"). It is just a matter of thinking more like backpackers than RVers.

So we've gone full circle, and now say: "the best size boat is the smallest boat that will safely fulfill your needs". Even if you can afford larger, you will probably enjoy cruising more if you are forced to go to the island laundromat, or washing lady, and hit the local grocery store every day. A smaller boat encourages you to get out and mingle with the locals. It is more of an adventure!

What size IS a smaller boat, would vary among different people and their needs. It's a personal choice.

I just thought I'd throw that in there...

Mark
And a beautifully thrown post to boot (Means Nice One for those not in the know)
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Old 30-12-2010, 18:12   #35
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500 litres a lot of water? My god, you must smell!! (only joking).

I donīt think 500 litres of water is that much for long Ocean crossings to be honest. Unless you want to be totally spartan.
But make it 300 litres and you still end up with 2000 kilos of payload.
Might be helpfull for you to check out this thread thats just started up in one of the other forums,

Minimum Water Tankage with Watermaker

It's discussing how much water people recommend when used with a watermaker. The average from people who have actualy done it in the past seems to be about 30gals (approx 150 litres), so you could resonably cut your water load by at least 300kgs.
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Old 30-12-2010, 20:41   #36
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After years of seriously wishing for a larger boat, we have now come to realize that our boat is just right. At least for us. We are 56, and I have a lot of old injuries.
Being 56 myself I can say how you come to the conclusion what the right sized boat is has to include the sincere belief that you know another ft would be too big. It's mostly about what the real reasons are. I'm pretty happy where we are at and am convinced. I would hurt so much more keeping a bigger boat.

It's not so easy for the very first boat. You have all these screwed up ideas. Some turn out correct for all the wrong reasons and others just make you embarrassed and you don't admit any of them until you reach 56. It's about getting your head right. Best advice is don't buy your first boat. Let someone else buy it. Then buy the real boat that is right for you. You could save SO much money.
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Old 30-12-2010, 20:54   #37
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and you don't admit any of them until you reach 56. It's about getting your head right.
56 rocks!!!

(From a contemporary, born in '54)
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Old 30-12-2010, 21:05   #38
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Now I know who is ahead of me, in the middle of the channel, with an intermittent short to the port signal light. All of you! Thanks to all of you boomers, for making me feel like a kid.
How many of you drive Crown Vics?
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Old 30-12-2010, 21:50   #39
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I'm guessing that there is probably not a lot of difference between sailing a 40 foot catamaran versus a 45-50 footer. Being an ex monohull sailor all I can tell you is our catamaran is MUCH easier to sail and maneuver than our 46 foot monohull.

As for size, a 45-50 foot catamaran is WAY big for a couple. There are cabins and lockers on our boat that my wife and I rarely see, let alone use. Just remember a 40 foot catamaran has approximately the same interior and deck space as a 60 foot monohull.

I do think you have a point about payload. We carry TONS of gear and no matter how much we load it up, we still have only managed to drop the boat 2 inchs below it's specified draft. In contrast, I was on a French built 41 foot cat that had algae growing on the lower transom steps with very little cruising gear aboard.

Have fun looking!
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Old 31-12-2010, 04:07   #40
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Agreed. Our 41' boat displaced 19,600 lbs empty, while our 46' boat, built by the same manufacturer, displaces 26,000 empty. Both boats are aft-cockpit sloops with similar rigs. The point here is that a 12% increase in LOA resulted in a 33% increase in displacement.

We were liveaboards when we moved from one boat to the next, basically rafting them side by side to accomplish the move. After transferring all our gear, the 41 came up three inches on her waterline while the 46 only settled an inch on her waterline.
The Pacific and itīs vast distances is my concern in regards to payload. All very well that 300 litres and a watermaker is enough. But I rather take 5 or 6 hundred litres and a watermaker. And a little extra food too. Call me a whimp, but I ainīt no masochist either...
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Old 31-12-2010, 05:04   #41
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The Pacific and itīs vast distances is my concern in regards to payload. All very well that 300 litres and a watermaker is enough. But I rather take 5 or 6 hundred litres and a watermaker. And a little extra food too. Call me a whimp, but I ainīt no masochist either...
If you've got the bucks go for the biggest boat you can buy... and with the payload you feel you need
We're just trying to answer the question you put to us..
These are just opinions from those who've done it or are doing it... in no way are you obligated to heed it...
Enjoy your journey and 2011
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Old 31-12-2010, 05:07   #42
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So we've gone full circle, and now say: "the best size boat is the smallest boat that will safely fulfill your needs". Even if you can afford larger, you will probably enjoy cruising more if you are forced to go to the island laundromat, or washing lady, and hit the local grocery store every day. A smaller boat encourages you to get out and mingle with the locals. It is more of an adventure!
Like this! Less is more as they say, especially as we get older I think.
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Old 31-12-2010, 05:55   #43
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Catcruiser, although you are correct in terms of performance, I think you'd find the Outremers (especially the old 42) to have significantly less accomodation and to be even more load sensitive than most 38 foot cats; I can't imagaine where you would fit your washing machine.

Really, its the same old story - you can have any two, but only two of the following: performance, accomodation or reasonable price. If you want a cat with Outremer performance capability while carrying the loads you envision, you are probably into the mid fifty foot range - an Atlantic 57 would suit you nicely. If you can't afford that, you may find the need to compromise on performance.

Brad
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Old 31-12-2010, 08:41   #44
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Interesting thread and thanks to Catcruiser for publishing the list for a cruising yacht , concentrates the mind. However, is 2 tonnes on a medium sized yacht a problem? surely the designer took it into consideration?

At 31 feet we are 800 kgs over the dry weight with full cruising kit (dinghy, outboard, genny and full tanks, food and spares). I can't tell any difference on her marks. I suspect if we loaded her up for a long trip with another tonne of stores we might only be down an inch, based on having 6 adults on board.

Interesting to here Mark J cross the Atlantic on 100 litres of water, that's a tiny amount for the length of his trip.

There is no gas on the list BTW.

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Old 31-12-2010, 14:35   #45
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I suspect if we loaded her up for a long trip with another tonne of stores we might only be down an inch, based on having 6 adults on board.
You really can't beat the laws of physics:

F = ma (a would be gravity)

Most boats will carry as much then you can stuff them but it isn't the best way to look it. Newtonian physics and all but it adds up bit by bit not all of a sudden. You can choose where to compromise. Overloaded is usually a few pounds before you get there and you don't get there until it matters. You sort out what you really need from what you really want and meet some place that works. It isn't more precise than that.

I've come to the conclusion you need to add the "I can sleep at night" test. It's the devil you know vs. the devil you don't. All modified with "The Admiral knows when you are wrong." Given these final absolute requirements you might not be right but being right may not matter. Compromise is the grease that gets you there and happy all the way.
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