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Old 30-12-2010, 11:11   #16
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.... Only WWII bomber pilot to fly back from a mission with his crew in a different plane than they left in....

Paul: Could you elaborate just a bit? I know it's not your story, but you have piqued my interest.


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Old 30-12-2010, 12:08   #17
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I was looking at the list and noticed "spare dinghy"............there's 30kilos thatcould go!!
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Old 30-12-2010, 12:24   #18
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Shoot... thats a lotta water and fuel....
Pretty much what I was going to say. If you've already factored in a watermaker and sensibly, a spare bottled reserve, why do you need to also carry half a ton of fresh water?? Unless you want to be at sea for months, there's no need for that amount.

I'd also question the boat specs more as well. Many different manufacturers quote differently, ie, dry or wet payload weights. Dry meaning no fuel, oil or water, etc. I suspect your figure of 2000kgs max payload is a 'wet' figure. I would be VERY surprised indeed if a 40ft Cat' only had a payload of just over a ton excluding fuel and water. Think about it, most cats of that size can easily take 8 passengers. So, that would be only 150 kgs each INCLUDING themselves!

There is no way that can be correct, take the fuel and water out of the equation and then it starts to look alot more resonable.
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Old 30-12-2010, 12:37   #19
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500 litres a lot of water? My god, you must smell!! (only joking).

I donīt think 500 litres of water is that much for long Ocean crossings to be honest. Unless you want to be totally spartan.
But make it 300 litres and you still end up with 2000 kilos of payload.
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Old 30-12-2010, 12:39   #20
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In regards to the payload: i.e. look at a Fusion 40. Payload is 1800 kgs.
to name an example.
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Old 30-12-2010, 12:47   #21
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Catcruiser, I think the Fusion 40 is a little more performance oriented than you are likely looking for if your wish list includes a watermaker and a reserve of that much water and items such as a washing machine. If you can afford it, you are probably right - for you bigger probably is better.

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Old 30-12-2010, 12:53   #22
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I am currently cruising on a 33 ft. monohull. No, we are not teenagers and no, we dont believe in spartan living, but you really dont need all the crap you think you do. I would far rather have a more manageable boat than a washing machine (just to take that as an example), especially when there are plenty of places willing to wash my clothes for me for far less than it would cost to install a washer on board.

Monos are far more forgiving of being overloaded than cats are. And I think it is only in the last 20 years or so that people have started to think that 40 foot boats are "too small" to cross an ocean. That is just plain nonsense. What matters is having a boat built for the job and sailing it well.

Also, dont forget that whatever gadget you have will break at some point. In fact, there is virtually always going to be something that needs fixing. I would far rather be diving and looking at the fish than waiting for a part to arrive.
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Old 30-12-2010, 12:53   #23
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my wife has at least 1,000 kgs in shoes alone.
My wife’s only shoes are 3 pairs of Crocks, but don’t ask about the china and crystal though.
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Old 30-12-2010, 12:54   #24
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Yes, Iīm afraid youīre rigth Brad. But fist and foremost, I am also a sailor. I know when cruising, speed is not of the essence. But some speed at times is good fun. Hence I am not looking at Lagoons and such like. Excellent cats, donīt get me wrong, but I have sailed some (recently a 440 from the UK to Mallorca), but also some pretty faul weather underway.
Lagoon was fine, never doubted the boat. But so slow....frustratingly slow.
So to conclude, this type of cat doesnīt rock my boat.
Maybe I should look at a 2nd hand Outremer 42 or 45?
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Old 30-12-2010, 13:10   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pblais
.... Only WWII bomber pilot to fly back from a mission with his crew in a different plane than they left in....


Paul: Could you elaborate just a bit? I know it's not your story, but you have piqued my interest.

I think he's refering to the payload or bomds being droped, so plane is much lighter on the way back home
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Old 30-12-2010, 13:22   #26
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500 litres a lot of water? My god, you must smell!! (only joking).

I donīt think 500 litres of water is that much for long Ocean crossings to be honest. Unless you want to be totally spartan.
But make it 300 litres and you still end up with 2000 kilos of payload.
None taken!

But my point still stands, a max payload on a 40ft+ cat INCLUDING fuel and water seems very light, so I still think the manufacturers ment on top of that. Like I said, 150kgs per person (assuming 8 ppl on board as designed to take) inclusing all water, fuel, provisions, clothing and themselves as well seems WAY off the mark, don't you think?

Either way, with a couple of minor revisions, you extensive list still can be easily brought down to 2000kgs anyway, even with the water.

Most marinas have washing facilities for example so the machine can be got rid of, this will in turn reduce your water consumption as well. Personaly, I own a 57ft motoryacht that I live on and would never have a washing machine on board. It's just as ecconomical to use a local outlet to do it for me and also I don't like the idea of having a mechanical device that pumps water, etc. on a boat!

If you really want all the comforts of home then sure, bigger is better and by selcting a cat', you've already gained quite a bit of space. However, it's knowing when to stop for reasons of both cost and practicality.
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Old 30-12-2010, 14:10   #27
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IMO it's more sensible to look at total displacement, rather than length. Our boat is 44 feet long, which some might call too big, but it only weighs around 6 tonnes fully loaded for full time liveaboard cruising. ( 400 litres water, watermaker, 220 litres fuel, fridge, freezer, washing machine, 3.5 m RIB with 18hp outboard...etc etc)

So it doesn't require a huge sailplan to drive it, and sail handling is easy enough for one person.
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Old 30-12-2010, 14:24   #28
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Originally Posted by simonmd
None taken!

But my point still stands, a max payload on a 40ft+ cat INCLUDING fuel and water seems very light, so I still think the manufacturers ment on top of that. Like I said, 150kgs per person (assuming 8 ppl on board as designed to take) inclusing all water, fuel, provisions, clothing and themselves as well seems WAY off the mark, don't you think?

Either way, with a couple of minor revisions, you extensive list still can be easily brought down to 2000kgs anyway, even with the water.

Most marinas have washing facilities for example so the machine can be got rid of, this will in turn reduce your water consumption as well. Personaly, I own a 57ft motoryacht that I live on and would never have a washing machine on board. It's just as ecconomical to use a local outlet to do it for me and also I don't like the idea of having a mechanical device that pumps water, etc. on a boat!

If you really want all the comforts of home then sure, bigger is better and by selcting a cat', you've already gained quite a bit of space. However, it's knowing when to stop for reasons of both cost and practicality.
Well, I have been in touch with various designers and cat builders, but they are all pretty clear on the subject of payload. payload is everything above lightship displacement. This means water, diesel and all the items I mentioned on my list. But, I am talking about more nimble cats like the Fusion or Schionning 1250 and or 1350 and such like. But also an Admiral 40 Has a payload of 2000 kgs. Cats like Lagoon and such like have higher payloads.
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Old 30-12-2010, 14:32   #29
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Sounds like you have two choices then, bigger boat or cut down then. The biggest saving would be the water supply. As you've got a watermaker, you won't need half that 500 litres at any one time. Cut it down to 2-300l and you'll be on target.
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Old 30-12-2010, 14:35   #30
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IMO it's more sensible to look at total displacement, rather than length.
Agreed. Our 41' boat displaced 19,600 lbs empty, while our 46' boat, built by the same manufacturer, displaces 26,000 empty. Both boats are aft-cockpit sloops with similar rigs. The point here is that a 12% increase in LOA resulted in a 33% increase in displacement.

We were liveaboards when we moved from one boat to the next, basically rafting them side by side to accomplish the move. After transferring all our gear, the 41 came up three inches on her waterline while the 46 only settled an inch on her waterline.
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