Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 18-07-2015, 22:08   #31
Registered User
 
sy_gilana's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On board
Boat: Van de Stadt 50'
Posts: 1,101
Send a message via Skype™ to sy_gilana
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Franziska, I was not guessing, or making stuff up about a continuous single line. I have it on my mizzen and it works well, all you have to do is make it long enough that your sail almost touches your spreaders, or rig and that is the most line you will use. The loop lives in a bag near the two rope clutches.

If you are worried about dumping the main in a squall, we also use a "wind fuse" its a small lanyard that ties the sheet to the beckett. There is a stopper knot there too. In a squall the lanyard breaks, the sheet eases one tackle length till the stopper lands in the next turn. In the morning pull it out and tie with a new lanyard.

Difficult choosing the right size lanyard though. We had to experiment. Its on our main boom, and that has a track....
__________________

__________________
Tight sheets to ya.
http://gilana.org
sy_gilana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2015, 01:14   #32
Registered User
 
Franziska's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Harlingen, The Netherlands
Boat: Woods Mira 35 Catamaran
Posts: 513
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Hey Gitana,

endless systems are great, I had them on other boats before.
Did not think you made something up.
Just can't quite see how it works with the two sheets.
Maybe you have a photo?
That would be great!

The fuse system in one part of each tackle is a great idea.Much better than a fuse releasing the boom 100%.

Thanks.

Sent from my C6603 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app
__________________

Franziska is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2015, 16:31   #33
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by sy_gilana View Post
Franziska, I was not guessing, or making stuff up about a continuous single line. I have it on my mizzen and it works well, all you have to do is make it long enough that your sail almost touches your spreaders, or rig and that is the most line you will use. ..

I'd suggest you need to go longer than this. You CAN depower the main when sailing DDW, by dumping the sheet. But not if it's a loop, and too short.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2015, 21:21   #34
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 979
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Once you are running a deep reach it might be better not to dump more sail as turning downwind will lessen the sail profile with the boom in a bit. Letting it out to the spreaders will increase the area as you turn offwind. There is a fine line here, different for each boat and the conditions.
__________________
Cavalier MK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2015, 22:37   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 811
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
I was wondering if anyone would remember travelers were once called horses.
I do remember the bit of rod curved down at each end fitted across the transom of a sailing dinghy with the main sheet block sliding across on it being called a horse.
I'm not quite old enough to remember travelers traveling by horse though.
__________________
GrahamHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-07-2015, 23:07   #36
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
Once you are running a deep reach it might be better not to dump more sail as turning downwind will lessen the sail profile with the boom in a bit. Letting it out to the spreaders will increase the area as you turn offwind. There is a fine line here, different for each boat and the conditions.
Because cat's usually don't have vangs, dumping the mainsheet does a lot more than just let the boom out. It also lets the boom lift, opening up the leech.

In fact if you let out enough, the sail will wrap around the shrouds, the battens will reverse, and the top of the main will basically hang downwind.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2015, 02:39   #37
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 979
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

I wouldn't count on that, especially with full battens Dead downwind its time to start hauling in again to centerline the main for dropping or reefing.
__________________
Cavalier MK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2015, 09:18   #38
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Schooner Chandlery's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: home port Washington DC
Boat: SS Crocker design #131
Posts: 977
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by sy_gilana View Post
Your diagram looks perfect. I like the twinsheet system and have converted a few boats, all owners are very happy, and some can lie down in the cockpit now...

Only change I would make is to have the line continuous, meaning less line, as one gives, the other takes away. Also have snap-shackles on the lower ones, so you can move them around for different reasons, like Sailing Downwind (move one forward as preventer) Parties (Clip onto drunk friend and pull out of canal) Get it out of the way at anchor...etc.
We have double tailed (single sheet) system on the mainsail of our monohull schooner. 6:1 purchase (line is run: port quarter block-boom block-center block-boom block-center block-boom block-starboard quarter block) 3 sheaves needed on boom, four on deck and no winch usually needed on the 630sf large mainsail (though we have one close to centerline that we could use if we wanted to do so). The outboard blocks are only about 7 feet apart from each other. Those blocks are snatch blocks and we can leave them on the aft quarters where they are or take them forward to a couple different chain plate locations if we wanted to prevent. So far we've never moved the snatch blocks forward. The vang action is nice where it is and we've used boom end preventers rigged very far forward rather than carrying the sheet block forward.

Our mainsheet is extra, extra long and that's advisable for using a double tail system. If two sheets are used, the same would be true. It's nice to have enough line to run your sheets where you'd like. I'm not as nimble as my husband is, and when I'm not feeling all that confident about gusty winds on my solo watches, I've rigged both tails to cleat off near whichever side of the cockpit I'm favoring (or near the centerline helm if I'm hand steering).

We have numerous large cleats around the cockpit combing with jib, staysail, foresail, and main sheets as the two foresail halyards and gaff vang all led back to the cockpit. We can drop the gaff foresail from the cockpit but not the mainsail --we'd go to the mainmast to do that.

One of the other posters here mentioned rigging a downhaul on the head/top slide of the mainsail. We do that, but ours is actually just a really long main halyard -- we take the tail of the halyard to a slide above the head of the sail so the halyard makes a loop and you can winch down on the tail or winch up to raise the sail. If you ever have to reef while on a broad reach or run (e.g. you're in big seas that only a fool would turn up into the wind to reef in such conditions) likely the only way you'll do it is by cranking down on the head of the sail using that down haul line. Even the fully loaded sail will come down. It is not fast though and doesn't fit the "dump wind" idea at all.

PS Cavalier --we've dropped the mainsail while running (and reefed there as mentioned) because if you haul a schooner main to centeline that will change your point of sail as the main, in big winds, can overpower the steering and soon you'd be on a beam reach in potentially very large seas.

Best of luck and sorry for digressing into monohull schooners but did want to address downhaul and ease of use of double ended sheets.
__________________
"The only noble thing a man can do with money is to build a schooner." Robert Louis Stevenson

Schooner Chandlery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2015, 09:32   #39
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 979
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

"PS Cavalier --we've dropped the mainsail while running (and reefed there as mentioned) because if you haul a schooner main to centeline that will change your point of sail as the main, in big winds, can overpower the steering and soon you'd be on a beam reach in potentially very large seas."

This might apply to some boats with big full battened mains too. In that case you just want it in enough to get it off the stays if possible. Every boat and rig is a bit different! It is always a good idea to practice things before the weather gets bad.
__________________
Cavalier MK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2015, 13:52   #40
Sponsoring Vendor
 
Schooner Chandlery's Avatar

Community Sponsor

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: home port Washington DC
Boat: SS Crocker design #131
Posts: 977
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

We've reefed on a downwind run and had the mainsail batten get stuck above the spreader behind the aft stay. Kept cranking down on the downhaul at the top of the sail and it popped out. You sort of have to do what you do in all the wx. What works in mild weather doesn't work at all in heavy weather. Bottom line is to get out there and sail. We have too much mainsail for the rig balance so we are frequently reefed down even in moderate winds.
__________________
"The only noble thing a man can do with money is to build a schooner." Robert Louis Stevenson

Schooner Chandlery is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2015, 14:06   #41
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 979
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Not too many catamaran schooners out there. There are a few Spronk designed staysail schooners and the big Wharram Pahi 63 gaff rigger if you ever want to keep the rig but add a hull.
__________________
Cavalier MK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2015, 17:06   #42
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2 View Post
I wouldn't count on that, especially with full battens Dead downwind its time to start hauling in again to centerline the main for dropping or reefing.
We're talking about two different situations. I was talking about an emergency depower, you're talking about reefing.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2015, 22:19   #43
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 979
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

No, we're talking about the same thing, depowering. By the time dead downwind is achieved I like to haul in to decrease the profile exposed to the wind and let the air spill out from the luff versus having my battens simulate wet spagetti while chafing on the rigging. This also lets me start hauling the main down or reef with less friction. It works for my boat really well.
__________________
Cavalier MK2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2015, 23:35   #44
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Again, you're talking about reefing for a sustained increase in wind. The thread is about "a good quick system to dump the main".

Dump, not sheet in.

I wouldn't suggest anyone sheet their main in to depower it. Certainly not in following seas. You'd create a strong tendency to round up, and in biggish waves the rudder(s) may not be in the water enough of the time to resist it.
__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-07-2015, 23:41   #45
Senior Cruiser
 
44'cruisingcat's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 7,454
Images: 69
Re: Does anyone know of a good quick system to dump the main with a double mainsheet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schooner Chandlery View Post
We have double tailed (single sheet) system on the mainsail of our monohull schooner. 6:1 purchase (line is run: port quarter block-boom block-center block-boom block-center block-boom block-starboard quarter block) 3 sheaves needed on boom, four on deck and no winch usually needed on the 630sf large mainsail (though we have one close to centerline that we could use if we wanted to do so). The outboard blocks are only about 7 feet apart from each other. Those blocks are snatch blocks and we can leave them on the aft quarters where they are or take them forward to a couple different chain plate locations if we wanted to prevent. So far we've never moved the snatch blocks forward. The vang action is nice where it is and we've used boom end preventers rigged very far forward rather than carrying the sheet block forward.

Our mainsheet is extra, extra long and that's advisable for using a double tail system. If two sheets are used, the same would be true. It's nice to have enough line to run your sheets where you'd like. I'm not as nimble as my husband is, and when I'm not feeling all that confident about gusty winds on my solo watches, I've rigged both tails to cleat off near whichever side of the cockpit I'm favoring (or near the centerline helm if I'm hand steering).

We have numerous large cleats around the cockpit combing with jib, staysail, foresail, and main sheets as the two foresail halyards and gaff vang all led back to the cockpit. We can drop the gaff foresail from the cockpit but not the mainsail --we'd go to the mainmast to do that.

One of the other posters here mentioned rigging a downhaul on the head/top slide of the mainsail. We do that, but ours is actually just a really long main halyard -- we take the tail of the halyard to a slide above the head of the sail so the halyard makes a loop and you can winch down on the tail or winch up to raise the sail. If you ever have to reef while on a broad reach or run (e.g. you're in big seas that only a fool would turn up into the wind to reef in such conditions) likely the only way you'll do it is by cranking down on the head of the sail using that down haul line. Even the fully loaded sail will come down. It is not fast though and doesn't fit the "dump wind" idea at all.

PS Cavalier --we've dropped the mainsail while running (and reefed there as mentioned) because if you haul a schooner main to centeline that will change your point of sail as the main, in big winds, can overpower the steering and soon you'd be on a beam reach in potentially very large seas.

Best of luck and sorry for digressing into monohull schooners but did want to address downhaul and ease of use of double ended sheets.

Great post. Quite applicable to many multihulls too.
__________________

__________________
44'cruisingcat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Can I dump the dump load? wiekeith Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 15 13-10-2016 18:20
Does Anyone Know Any Good Children's Sailing Books ? Drifter33 The Library 36 04-06-2015 03:39
Best system to do most of wind/solar/alternator/shore to house/starting/dump + more bene505 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 19 19-05-2014 08:46
Double Mainsheet vs Traveler mikereed100 Multihull Sailboats 20 10-03-2013 13:30
For Sale: Mainsheet Traveler, Jib Sheet Tracks, Double Rope Clutch, Adjustable Bracket pressuredrop Classifieds Archive 5 02-07-2010 13:15



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.