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Old 11-04-2006, 21:15   #16
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Yeah, I bet Kai?
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:41   #17
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Dagger boards, narrow space between hulls. this boat is more like an overgrown beach cat than a cruising boat. This configuration is designed for sailing like a hobie cat with one hull out of the water. You overpress it a bit and over it goes. If you go out in bad weather and accept the consequences.

We have always talked about CRUISING catamarans as being dificult to capsize.

BTW how do we know that this was a capsize and not a pitchpole anyway.


A darn good example of the capabilities of a well designed catamaran is Richard Wood's cat "Eclipse" which they had to abandon in force 10 due to the condition of the crew (not he boat) and which has just been found more than 1000 miles away (stripped by some scumbag of all the valuables and no longer economic for salvage)
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Old 12-04-2006, 09:48   #18
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From the comfort of my armchair I would say 2 things:

- for Pete's sake get a better PFD. Hope that was just the one that floated by after the capsize and not the boat's compliment

- multihull owners repeat after me: "Reef early, reef often."


Seriously - glad the skipper was rescued unharmed.
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Old 18-04-2006, 21:41   #19
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Talking and now from the West Coast

Since we all live in glass houses no need to throw stones
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Old 18-04-2006, 22:05   #20
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Tippy

That looks like the 22 ? foot boat that wandered in to the surf in the San Francisco area. There has been much debate about it, including from me, but nobody wants to here the opinion of an X surfer. Better to quote Marchaj and his tank testing of heavy boats. If the boat does not steer straight in excess of wave speed things will go wonky. I am referring to the real wave, not the wave the boat creates. A wave like the one in the photo could be travelling at up to 12 mph. If the sail boat can imitate a power boat and stay in front of the wave it might survive. If the speed difference ( boat going to slow ) when the wave catches up the boat, might perl ( nose dive ) and broach / skewer / trip on the pointy end. Or the boat could put the breaks on and slow down. That is a common solution for boats that can not handle high speed. They should not be trying to surf with their sail boat. The more it resembles a surf board the more likely it will survice. The more it resembles a submarine ( too heavy ) the more you will need to slow it down. Hopefully the waves we encounter are not too steep when going down wind. The Sidney Hobart storm has some good reporting on this.
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Old 18-04-2006, 22:28   #21
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Oh boy. Old news.

The boat in those photos is a 22 foot Santana.

Flipped over just before the south end of the Golden Gate Bridge in San Fransisco, California.

The waves and current can be very surprising. And can over come a boat that size without any problems. Which is why it happened.
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Old 18-04-2006, 22:45   #22
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surfing

I have to agree with you BC Mike. A cat or tri will act more like a surfboard and accelarate rapidly and be pushed out ahead of the wave with good directional control. They need the center of bouyancy forward of the center to lessen the chance of stuffing a bow or three into the trough and pitchpoling on really large breaking waves. If running in heavy conditions and towing a single drouge it is important to have the boat and drouge on the crest at the same time. Then as above the boat can accelarate ahead of the breaker and then slow down in the trough.
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Old 23-04-2006, 23:28   #23
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I've always understood that waterspouts are generally a lot weaker than tornadoes ashore, although they are essentially the same phenomena. The hazard from them is usually from flying debris, so I would think it highly unlikely a waterspout would be powerful enough to flip over a boat of that size. The idiot was out sailing in storm conditions and probably pitchpoled it. If, in the unlikely event that he was flipped by a waterspout, then he was very lucky to be on a cat - if he was flipped by same on a mono then it would have sank to the bottom and given the state of the gear he was wearing, that is where he would be too.

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Old 24-04-2006, 02:44   #24
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One of the volvo boats a few years ago (before the V60) was caught by a waterspout. Even such a big boat was spun round in several x 360, and sustained considerable boom, sail and rigging damage. They were lucky not to lose the mast! Thus the cat being flipped is entirely feasible (Note I didnt say likely!)
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Old 24-04-2006, 11:15   #25
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I would guess he stuffed a bow or was not paying attention when he was hit by a gust. Getting hit by an unexpected gust is a fairly common way to flip them. In the Caribbean, the breeze can accelerate down a hill and the velocity changes by a factor of 3-4 times (i.e. 15 becomes 60) It flips a couple cruising cats every year.

Lodesman, a mono might take a knockdown but it isn't going to sink fom that.
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Old 29-03-2007, 15:09   #26
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In the breakers in San Francisco

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Rust
Since we all live in glass houses no need to throw stones
And I'd say he was where he had no business being, in very shallow water, where the swell breaks. This is made even worse by the presence of strong tidal curents. He should have been on the OTHER side of the bridge support.
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Old 29-03-2007, 15:44   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodesman
...- if he was flipped by same on a mono then it would have sank to the bottom...
This is not true. Take a look at the number of mono-hulls in the Fastnet 1979 storm that rolled 360*, some multiple times and did not sink.

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Old 29-03-2007, 15:56   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joli
That's been photoshopped, cats don't capsize!
From here I can't tell if your tongue is in your cheek or not. I have to assume that it is firmly in place as we all know that cats do go turtle. And they stay that way.
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Old 30-03-2007, 08:59   #29
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Ill bet that if that had been a 22 foot cat or tri instead of a 22 santana, It would have had a nice ride all the way to the beach. Maybe even some good cutbacks!

As far as the 28 foot cat goes, he probably didn't have the mainsheet in his hand. Does everyone here use jam cleats? I do. Everything can go real fast.
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Old 30-03-2007, 17:03   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul L
Take a look at the number of mono-hulls in the Fastnet 1979 storm that rolled 360*, some multiple times and did not sink.
Paul,

Can you provide that statistic please; I'm afraid don't know the number. I am aware that Grimalkin rolled repeatedly and was also pitchpoled; she was eventually salvaged, but a few of her crew perished nonetheless. So I'll grant you that not all mono's will sink (nor will all multi's float) when inverted, but so many multi-bashers will chime out that mono's are superior to cats because they will right when inverted. That depends again on the mono - but one that does right will likely have lost its mast, maybe lose its rudder and possibly lose its keel. I submit then that a mono in that state (less stability, less steerability, taking on water, fouled by rigging) is a death-trap that is only going to roll even more. A cat remains stable when inverted (one could argue even more stable than upright ), which conceivably makes it safer to stay with the boat. As I recall, a large number of the Fastnet fatalities were attributed to the crews abandoning their boats for liferafts.

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