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Old 25-07-2012, 23:28   #16
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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Originally Posted by bruce smith View Post
no accident my boats are all gaff rigged.
Aaahhh, gaff rigged ... (schooner seen adjacent to Benicia on Monday, heading for the Delta),

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Old 25-07-2012, 23:38   #17
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

I pull my chainplates every 5 years for inspection. But I am lucky - I have easy access. If access is not so easy, pull them every 5 years anyway. As everyone says, they let go where they pass through the deck so don't even kid yourself that by cleaning out the caulking around the plate you can see anything; take them out.
If you have any signs of water infiltration around the plates that indicates potential problems with the stainless. Do something or risk losing the rig.
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Old 26-07-2012, 01:20   #18
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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A multi hull accelerates or it breaks. There is no heeling /saftey valve.
The cheapest possible materials are used , not the best.
What a load of crap
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Old 26-07-2012, 02:14   #19
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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Originally Posted by bruce smith View Post
A multi hull accelerates or it breaks. There is no heeling /saftey valve.
The cheapest possible materials are used , not the best.
It does not require rough or windy conditions.
On a marconi rig , not just a multimaran, the whole rig can collapse from a single rig failure.
no accident my boats are all gaff rigged.
What an extraordinary thing to say. Tempo Spars & Allyacht Spars, do our rigs, we use them cause they do it right - not cause they do it cheap.

There is a reason Gaff rigs fell out of favour, the laws of physics tell us that the extra weight aloft in the gaff alone creates massive forces. By all means have your gaff rig, but to suggest the bermudan/marconi rig is inherently flawed in just silly beyond words.
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Old 27-07-2012, 17:22   #20
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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Originally Posted by david samuelson View Post
I pull my chainplates every 5 years for inspection. But I am lucky - I have easy access. If access is not so easy, pull them every 5 years anyway. As everyone says, they let go where they pass through the deck so don't even kid yourself that by cleaning out the caulking around the plate you can see anything; take them out.
If you have any signs of water infiltration around the plates that indicates potential problems with the stainless. Do something or risk losing the rig.
I'll take this as a good reason to stick to newer boats for blue water work, or at least that one should be prepared to go to considerable cost and effort to be safe from a dismasting.

And yet another good reason for pleasure cruisers to take it slow and easy. No sense in losing the rig over an extra knot or two.
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Old 27-07-2012, 17:24   #21
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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Rig Failure is not a given. Sensible initial design and sensible maintenance result in no rig failure. There are production builders who have never had a rig failure.
Any knowledge about the popular mass-production cats - Gemini, Lagoon, FP?
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Old 27-07-2012, 17:36   #22
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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Originally Posted by david samuelson View Post
I pull my chainplates every 5 years for inspection. But I am lucky - I have easy access. If access is not so easy, pull them every 5 years anyway. As everyone says, they let go where they pass through the deck so don't even kid yourself that by cleaning out the caulking around the plate you can see anything; take them out.
If you have any signs of water infiltration around the plates that indicates potential problems with the stainless. Do something or risk losing the rig.
Yes, all the more reason I prefer external chain plates. I can see a lot of the surface area of my plates, and their full length, without removing a thing (although I agree periodic full removal and inspection is a good idea).
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Old 27-07-2012, 17:51   #23
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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Yes, all the more reason I prefer external chain plates. I can see a lot of the surface area of my plates, and their full length, without removing a thing (although I agree periodic full removal and inspection is a good idea).
Sadly this is just a myth.

External chainplates are at least as susceptible to crevice corrosion as through deck ones are. Obviously the outside part of the chainplate will be fine, but the entire side pressed against the hull is in danger. It may however be easier to remove and inspect external chainplates, but unless this is done regularly it really won't matter.

I really did try guys, but the real solution is to just toss stainless steel overboard, and switch to titanium. Once installed, titanium is immune to corrosion in marine environments, and unlike stainless doesn't work harden. So they realistically should last forever, absent physical damage, since there isn't a form of corrosion that effects titanium until tempratures reach 180 degrees F.
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Old 27-07-2012, 19:12   #24
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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Any knowledge about the popular mass-production cats - Gemini, Lagoon, FP?
Cant talk for them, and indeed do not wan't to comment, but we (Seawind) haven't had a rig failure in 30 years. (he says touching wood), and indeed lets face it, a failure that was caused by stupidity on the part of the crew shouldn't be a cause for greater concern. My issue is with intensely silly statements like, Production builders use cheap materials. Its wrong ill informed and quite frankly - stupid.
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Old 27-07-2012, 19:59   #25
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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90% of rig failures can be prevented with maintenance. but it's not always cheap

Not sailing/driving into a bridge helps avoid it too.
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Old 27-07-2012, 20:08   #26
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
I'll take this as a good reason to stick to newer boats for blue water work, or at least that one should be prepared to go to considerable cost and effort to be safe from a dismasting.

And yet another good reason for pleasure cruisers to take it slow and easy. No sense in losing the rig over an extra knot or two.

You're kidding, right?
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Old 27-07-2012, 21:20   #27
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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You're kidding, right?
I don't get it. Did you see a joke in that? Or is this a prelude to a constructive comment?
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Old 27-07-2012, 21:25   #28
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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Originally Posted by Factor View Post
a failure that was caused by stupidity on the part of the crew shouldn't be a cause for greater concern.
But that is a concern, since the potential stupidity of the crew cannot be overestimated!

What got me thinking about this was that guy who got fished off of his catamaran while "sailing" to shore with his little 5' mast and a bit of sailcloth rigged on it. That, and the 16 yr old girl who got whacked in the head and thrown into the water by a broken mast. I'd hate to be 1000 miles from shore like that.
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Old 27-07-2012, 22:18   #29
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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Originally Posted by ArtM View Post
Any knowledge about the popular mass-production cats - Gemini, Lagoon, FP?
Not sure about Geminis, and nothing wrong in the design of Lagoons and FP, but some isues to consider in Lagoons and fps are, this cats sport a long black cover in main shrouds to prevent the main for chafing against the shroud and the long black stuff is resting in a washer on top of the swage , the perfect trap for water and moisture in the worst place posible.

Lagoons have polyester mastheads sheaves , and the design have lets say a large gap between the top and the sheave , allowing the mainsail halyard to jump from the sheave and stuck in the gap if you let the halyard flog when droping the main or with the halyard without tension, this happen to me 2 times in 2 diferents lagoons when making both deliverys.

Another isue to consider is the friction in reef lines inside of booms , i dont know why but Z spar dont solve the isue at the moment , again, take a file and flat all this dam sharpy corners around reef stopers or risk to loose a reef line in the worst moment.

Apart from that , nothing wrong.....
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Old 27-07-2012, 22:29   #30
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Re: Dismasting - why does it happen, how to prevent it

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I don't get it. Did you see a joke in that? Or is this a prelude to a constructive comment?

Cruisers should be just as diligent about keeping their boat in good repair as racers, and then sail their boat as best they can. I just can't think of a good reason for a cruiser to deliberately sail 1 - 2 knots slower than they can.

If the rigging is in good condition, sailing fast won't bring it down. Cruisers are destination sailors. Why take 4 hours longer than you should because you don't trust your rigging? Check it out and then go have fun!
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