and to 316 cheerleaders in general;
"There are NOT "endless thousands" of folks getting dismasted for any reason whatsoever"
You are right, as Google
says it could only find 34500 images
tagged with the word dismasted. so you are perfectly right. it's not truly endless is it?
but on the other hand, i imagine some guys also don't take photos of their broken 316 fittings though, or name them correctly. i just assumed from decades of experience that what you can find instantly in one second is usually just the tip of the iceberg, and that if you actually sit down and put in years of effort searching, then you generally end up finding many many times more than you did than when you searched for one second.
316 "mostly it works" is not engineering.
i think i made clear that an engineered structure is exactly what i was doing, rather than a non-engineered, unsafe, and illegal in some countries on land structure that most people have.
the two cases are vastly different.
in my defense, i always try and answer in the same tone as the person, and you did call all other alloys "magic". but they are not truly magic are they? just engineered.
i think some of the 316 supporters are getting a bit silly.
everybody here currently has 316, ok? and so actually having 316 is the problem.
almost everybody here, and in the entire world currently has, and uses 316. exactly the same as you.
so then, do you really think the rest of us don't already know 316 at least as well as you? basically then, you are telling experienced sailing guys the astoundingly obvious.
how many posts are there here saying 316 is BRILLIANT! when the thread topic is basically all about 316 failing?
so i think the 316 cheerleaders are all a little silly,
as you are telling experienced sailing guys the obvious, and are actually contributing your efforts in the exact opposite direction of the thread topic.
Do you See? if every one here already HAS 316, and the topic is HOW TO STOP being dismasted, then it sort of follows that what everybody else is talking about is 316 failing and what can you do to stop it.
one picture of capitalists inability to make a simple inert blob that doesn't fail convinced me that they were all appallingly stupid, and so not allowed anywhere near my boat.
linus pauling once said the current
paradigm is never defeated, the supporters just die. (can't teach an old dog new tricks poshed up in science lingo)
So to all the 316 cheerleaders;
everybody here is EXACTLY the same as you, and currently has 316, ok? and so this is the exact problem that we are actually talking about. actually having 316.
Regarding my apology; i truly don't understand you at all. i have no idea what you said, or why you posted it.
"I've read most of your post's but i still do not understand your logic on bolts?"
i spoke to a modern alloy bolt supplier to marine/oil rigs/chemical plants. he supplies literally thousands of different alloy bolts for weird chemical plants etc (ie you can use 686 for phosphoric acid plants, but not for paper pulp bleach etc etc) so he supplies thousands of different alloys for different chemical plants and industries.
according to his engineering tables, he would not give 2205 bolts for use under sea water, as they will fail if used efficiently. (if you use a specific alloy, then you get as much value as you can out of it; ie the bolt MUST hold exactly the maximum weight it is specified to hold IF you expect your commercial
plant to give an efficient return on investment)
2205 has a PREN of 34
304 has a PREN of 17
316 has a PREN of 23
so 2205 kicks the sh!t out of 316, and is still not good enough for real and true engineered structures. only for dodgy untrained back yard boat builders that don't know any better saying "she'll be right mate, as my aunty betty had a 14 foot boat that had a 316 bolt underwater, and she was just FINE". but if you were an engineer
and did this, then you'd be sacked for being a complete moron. Engineers even electro-copper coat 2507 bolts for under water use. (and they have a virgin PREN of 43)
so do you intend being a dodgy back yard builder
? or a true, engineered, safe structure builder
intergranular corrosion between the crystals is catalysed by chlorine. so you need very very little chlorine, and any tension on the bolt spreads apart tiny stress cracks, chlorine enters the intergranular cracks, the bolt stress supplies constant energy, and so Stress Corrosion Cracking is the inevitable result.
to bypass all this dribble, the alloy that you use must be immune from corrosion in the first place. a PREN above 40 for salt
in Appendix 1 have a look at that 316 turnbuckle bolt that split exactly between the first few threads. and this bolt even HAD access to oxygen. according to the Outukompu metallurgist and a few other yacht surveyors web sites you can easily find, they all of them say exactly the same thing. this is exactly where your bolt will fail.
have a look again at the pictures of 316 bolts that simply disappeared. this is different to SCC. this is lack of oxygen. if oxygen, then the bolt head will appear very shiny and look perfect, but the bit that is starved of oxygen simply evaporates. disappears.
so if they get air they look good and live, if they suffocate, they die.
i'm sorry to be blunt, but that's the straight truth. why gamble? when ALL normal engineers are exactly like the bolt supplier guy, and do the job to the correct, agreed on, international standard? PREN above 40.
"my aunt mary once used a 316 bolt and it was a GREAT! bolt" stories cut no mustard. can't you see that other people have had very bad experiences?
the tinniest invisible scratch on the 316 bolts 0.0000001 mm thick ceramic coating, a single invisible speck of iron on the surface, a single drop of water in an anaerobic environment, and your 316 bolt dies, quite quickly.
"socialist worker cooperatives won't have Stainless Steel but good old soviet non rusting material. The rest of us filthy capitalist supporting boat owners will be out there suffering with our old SS fittings that haven't failed despite the pronouncements of the the collectivist leader Poo Beetle."
you can suffer as much as you like.
all i can say is your 316 chainplate costs $200 from a shop, and mine cost $7.
yours is absolute rubbish that has killed people, dismasted thousands, and mine is 4000% stronger than yours under load cycles in salt
so all up?
$200/7 x 40 times better strength x 100 for percent
so that's 114000% better value than yours.
you bought yours from MacDonalds, i had to actually get up off my arse and drill a hole. we each got exactly what we wanted.
"SS is not a forever material". perfectly true for you, as your SS is the cheapest rubbish you can possibly buy.
a thousand other SS's are forever materials. MacDonalds is not the only restaurant.
"316 is all that is available to us "poor normal people, however."
if you can't be arsed to make a phone
call to a small local engineering firm or to write an email
, then that is perfectly true.
my last post here.
i'm so bored.
i may reply, but only to guys actually, and genuinely interested in the thread topic. how to stop yourself from being dismasted.
all 316 cheerleaders, have a nice day.
bi all :o)