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Old 07-07-2008, 09:21   #31
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Trawlers use dual fuel stoves, but usually it is electricity and alcohol. The other method mentioned is to have a large generator.
On my catamaran, propane makes sense from a cost standpoint as well as a weight issue. With proper precautions and regular maintenance of the system it is extremely safe. I did not go through the 2 tanks of 30 lbs. each during 4 months of cruising.
Perhaps some day storage batteries will be robust enough, but for now we have the above methods.
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Old 07-07-2008, 09:41   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Latitude9.5 View Post
As far as lpg consumption I dunno, i'd be curious to see what others are doing here, we only have two adults on the boat
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I would think there could be.

At our house we run the stove top on bottled barbie type gas (9 kilo bottles)...... we get about 2-3 months doing all our cooking on it - there is two of us and we entertain a bit. Thats all out cooking everyday of the week.
G'day Latitude9.5 & Factor,

Thanks for the comments & links.

On the fish boats, we would use the lpg stove/oven quite a bit. If not just for meals but to make a quick coco to keep warm in the NZ waters. The usage & frequency (bottle change) is correct to the best of my knowledge but what I'm probably not taking into account is how much food we actually ate (given all the physical work), so feeding us 4 was probably more like feeding 8 yachties

At home during summer, I use the bbq for dinners every night (unless its raining, which is very rare). The amount of people eating could be 3-4, I'll get about 3 weeks on a 22kg lpg bottle. The bbq is one of those big ones with the drop down lids, beer trays etc that has to be heated up first etc.

Know what you mean. We've got gas here (cooking, heating & hotwater) & I'm wondering about talking to a plumber about putting in a low pressure hose to the bbq or something for this summer.
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:00   #33
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If you used solar panels and wind generators and used the extra to work the stove wouldn't that work
No

Not with a standard cooker. 3.6 Kw = 3600 watts (rounding numbers to make calc easier!!!!)

at 12v, this requires 300 amps. The size of copper wire to carry this load is enormous. Most solar panel and wind generators combinations will only achieve 3% of that requirement. Thus you either have to fill your vessel with batteries, and run your engine to charge them as well, or accept that LPG is a viable cooking fuel.

There are diesel cookers (very expensive, and much less responsive for cooking.

There are paraffin and spirit stoves - I reckon they are more dangerous than lpg, but thats my opinion. They are certainly less user friendly.

You could realistically power a microwave, but that is not a serious contender for cooking decent food!
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Old 07-07-2008, 12:23   #34
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We have used the 20# propane bottles for the past 11 years, and have always gotten 6-8 weeks out of a bottle. We use it exclusively for cooking, however, we cook almost every night, and use the oven allot. I have compared the convenience, and cost to diesel, and alcohol, and propane still comes up the winner.
I have always been anti microwave, but I admit my views are changing on that. Still, I find it most efficient to use the propane stove, and the pressure cooker for most things. Even popcorn cooks fast, and cheaper on a propane stove. It just takes a bit more work
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Old 07-07-2008, 13:21   #35
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I used to get about 5 days per 4.5kg bottle - however, we used gas for heating water, and a fridge as well as cooking!
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Old 07-07-2008, 13:33   #36
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Heating takes allot of fuel, as I have posted before. Many disagree with me, but I would choose solid fuel for heating over propane any time.
As for the electric stove, I hear they work great on power boats with big gensets. Unfortunately, th only experience I have had with that set up, we spent several hours trying to get the genset to keep working. Durring that time, we had limited lights, no stove, no referigeration, and none of the conveniences that make a power boat fun at anchor.
The only inconvenience I have had with propane stoves was poor planning on my part requiring an unplanned trip to fill the bottles. That has only happened twice in 11 years, and was completely within my control to prevent. Hard to find that reliability with electric.
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Old 08-07-2008, 00:37   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Nui View Post
Heating takes allot of fuel, as I have posted before. Many disagree with me, but I would choose solid fuel for heating over propane any time.
As for the electric stove, I hear they work great on power boats with big gensets. Unfortunately, th only experience I have had with that set up, we spent several hours trying to get the genset to keep working. Durring that time, we had limited lights, no stove, no referigeration, and none of the conveniences that make a power boat fun at anchor.
The only inconvenience I have had with propane stoves was poor planning on my part requiring an unplanned trip to fill the bottles. That has only happened twice in 11 years, and was completely within my control to prevent. Hard to find that reliability with electric.
Hallo Kai Nui

We use a 2 burner gas stove in combination with a 2 burner induction electric stove on our Green Motion cat , fact are that although a cooker may be rated to consume 3 Kw per hour we never use both burners for a full hour let alone together.
An average meal sets us back 1 to 1.5 Kw and a cooked breakfast about 500 watt total.
We have placed the 2 burner gas stove on board but I doubt if she will be used often
we have in addition to a wind generator (air Breeze) 4 x 215 solar panles on board and a back up generator for our electric motors, it is offcourse a diffrent setup but works fine.
If on shore power we only cook electric and while sailing sometimes gas but normally electric.

I am sorry that My post on the FastCat bothers you , I am a commercial vendor and if there is a customer willing to share his experience with members of the forum that are interested I will offcourse link these up, How could I otherwise be a commercial vendor.

Greetings and happy sailing
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Old 08-07-2008, 01:46   #38
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Some info here

Search Results - Victron Energy

The reason I posted this is I used to have pdf from Victron (99% sure it was victron) where they used electric everythng on the boat.

The boat was a lightweight Trimaran smaller than 40 ft

It did involve lots of (their) expensive kit

Cant find it now of course

Dave
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Old 08-07-2008, 13:24   #39
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I am sorry that My post on the FastCat bothers you , I am a commercial vendor and if there is a customer willing to share his experience with members of the forum that are interested I will offcourse link these up, How could I otherwise be a commercial vendor.
I may not agree with everything you post but I really welcome the involvement that you show towards this forum. I believe that this is a healthy approach not just for us, but also for you. Your airing of your design philosophy causes us to think, and perhaps our arguments against some aspects will also be of benefit to future owners of your products - how can we as sailors fail to benefit from this synergistic process.
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Old 08-07-2008, 13:59   #40
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I may not agree with everything you post but I really welcome the involvement that you show towards this forum. I believe that this is a healthy approach not just for us, but also for you. Your airing of your design philosophy causes us to think, and perhaps our arguments against some aspects will also be of benefit to future owners of your products - how can we as sailors fail to benefit from this synergistic process.
I totally agree with you , I aim to learn from this forum get to know what sailors want in their boat ( cat ) and am please if others can learn from me.
I am always willing to share my knowledge with others and within our factory we have an open door policy , not just for our customers but to anybody that want to know how we build boats, I have had as many as 8 boat builders from South Africa watch a infusion of a complete hull and am sure they all have learned something

Greetings and happy ( and safe ) sailing

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Old 11-07-2008, 14:56   #41
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When I took up sailing, everybody cooked with alcohol or kerosene. There are only 2 kerosene (parafin) stoves available these days, the English Taylor, and the Scandanavian Wellas. The Wellas requires electricity, but very little. They are both quite expensive. Alcohol just doesn't put out enough heat, and it costs a lot. You have to prime the Taylor with alcohol, but very little. I am putting Wellas cookers into the boat that I am building. You can use them to heat a smallish boat, if you get their heater attachment.
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Old 15-07-2008, 13:54   #42
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Hi all srry i ain't posted in a while ive been sailing with my friends and working on my truck, also been taking care of a 4week old kitten so ive been busy fast cat you said you used an electric stove on your green motion cat how did you figue that one out?
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Old 17-07-2008, 03:59   #43
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I recently posted on this topic over at SailNet, but I saw this thread and couldn't resist jumping in here too. My reaction to the original poster's question is: have you considered compressed natural gas (CNG)?

The chief advantage of CNG is supposed to be safety. Unlike propane, CNG is lighter than air, and thus won't sink to the bilge. There have been rare cases of propane explosions on boats. CNG, by contrast, dissipates pretty quickly.

One disadvantage is that it's a lot harder to find CNG than propane, especially outside the US. Inside the US, though, it's becoming easier to find. There are several locations near me, in the Chesapeake area; and the Corp Brothers Marine website lists several dozen locations on both coasts.

Another disadvantage is that CNG cylinders may be bigger, heavier, pricier, and bulkier than propane tanks. I'm still not clear on which tank lasts longer, CNG or propane. One person in SailNet said one CNG tank would last for about 20 hours of cooking.

CNG doesn't sound perfect, but since the original poster asked, I thought I'd mention it as a possibility. I'm thinking of buying a boat for Chesapeake cruising in the next year or so, and I'm on the fence between CNG and propane myself.
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Old 17-07-2008, 10:57   #44
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I recently posted on this topic over at SailNet, but I saw this thread and couldn't resist jumping in here too. My reaction to the original poster's question is: have you considered compressed natural gas (CNG)?

The chief advantage of CNG is supposed to be safety. Unlike propane, CNG is lighter than air, and thus won't sink to the bilge. There have been rare cases of propane explosions on boats. CNG, by contrast, dissipates pretty quickly.

One disadvantage is that it's a lot harder to find CNG than propane, especially outside the US. Inside the US, though, it's becoming easier to find. There are several locations near me, in the Chesapeake area; and the Corp Brothers Marine website lists several dozen locations on both coasts.

Another disadvantage is that CNG cylinders may be bigger, heavier, pricier, and bulkier than propane tanks. I'm still not clear on which tank lasts longer, CNG or propane. One person in SailNet said one CNG tank would last for about 20 hours of cooking.

CNG doesn't sound perfect, but since the original poster asked, I thought I'd mention it as a possibility. I'm thinking of buying a boat for Chesapeake cruising in the next year or so, and I'm on the fence between CNG and propane myself.
From my calculations below from the earlier thread the CNG tank will last 15 hours using the flow rate using one burner from the data for the stove I found, so about what the other person said. The 20# propane tank will last a little under 75 hours.

Below from:
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...d-13079-3.html

Yes CNG is safer, but there is 5 times the heat available in a 20 lb propane tank as there is in a 72 cubic foot CNG tank.

natural gas 1 ft^3 = 1031 BTU
propane 1 gal = 91,000 BTU

scuba size CNG tank at 2250 psi = 72 ft^3
standard 20 lb. propane cylinder = 4.1 gal

natural gas in above tank 74,232 BTU
propane in above tank 373,100 BTU

One model of Seaward cooker uses
about 5000 BTU/hr per stove burner
about 10,000 BTU/hr oven
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Old 17-07-2008, 11:50   #45
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cal40John, Great info. To me, the inconvenience of locating CNG is even more of a factor. Some close friends cruised Mexico with CNG. Last I heard from them, the CNG was not something they would do again.
As for propane safety, having lost a couple friends to a propane explosion, I am as leery as anyone on the safety of propane, but my experience is, if you do not do anything stupid with propane, the convenience far out weighs the risk. Propane is not idiot proof.
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