Desert guy with catamaran questions

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Gaia

SNIP

We are also considering a catamaran to 'retire' on in the western Caribbean and either there or on passage, tankage would be one of our last concerns.

SNIP

RANT ALERT

Not the first time I have posted this rant. A lot of folks buy boats based on what they think they will be doing, not what they finally wind up doing. If you are even half way capable of selecting a good weather window in the Caribbean or Bahamas you will be basically day sailing or maybe overnight and day sailing. Many folks sail there with minimal motor usage. As a few other posters have noted they filled up their tanks and crossed oceans, admittedly in the trades, using very little fuel.

In the Keys and Bahamas I normally plan to burn more fuel in my dinghy than my Seawind, and I know others who do the same. I find a nice anchorage, dinghy to places of interest, dive on reef, what ever and often sail off the anchor and am able to anchor with out backing down if the anchorage is a good one. Not saying this is the way everyone cruises; just that it is not an uncommon way to do it. Even on long passages in the Pacific it is possible to get away with sailing almost all of the time.

There is no definition of offshore cruiser (or blue water cruiser) that everyone agrees with. But you would do well to determine just what the term means to you. That would help you choose the best boat for your definition of cruising.

[Tom and Maje]

We carry 92 gals of fuel in the tanks and have about 60 gals in jerry jugs. We have two 100 gal water tanks.

We have a 2004 Leopard 40 and just finished a transatlantic crossing. We've been living on her for 3 years now. Here's what I've learned:

Make sure when you walk through the boat you have something to grab with each step. Many of the new cats don't have enough handholds. And you really don't want to be running jacklines in the salon (yes that really happened with folks on a new Leopard 44).

Unless you have lots of money for haul outs, slips when you need them etc., look at a small cat. We know people with a 50' St. Francis, and they had a hard time finding slips. We have no problem at all. Also, the bigger the cat, the more expensive it is to maintain.

Figure out where you want to cruise. We knew we needed a blue water boat, because we were going off-shore down to the Caribbean and at some point to Europe.

Look to safety. Can you brace in the galley or is it next to a set of stairs? Are there sufficient handholds throughout the boat and outside?

Storage, storage, storage. When we bought our boat my husband said we had plenty of storage. I thought we needed a pantry. Two days after I'd put everything away he as making the pantry.

Seriously consider buying used. No it probably won't be as pretty, but you'll get stuff you won't get (without paying lots of money for) on a new boat. Ours came with solar (that we've since upgraded), watermaker, two chartplotters, and the best wind generator on the market. You can charter older model cats in the BVI. For what you pay for a new boat, you can use the money for other things, including making it your own.

Maje

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by maxingout

Our Privilege 39 catamaran has a cruising range under power of about 1400 miles.

I always carried enough fuel for 1400 miles, so that when I am on passage, I can put the hammer down and get out of harms way if we are on a windless sea.

On two sailing trips to New Zealand, we just made it in to port before before gales struck. If we had not motored through the high pressure areas north of New Zealand, we would have gotten clobbered twice by the lows that were coming off the Tasman.

Extra fuel has saved me on multiple occasions. I consider the extra fuel to be part of my safety gear on board.

Sound advice.

Yes, whilst most cruisers plan to sail from port to port, sometimes motoring is a wise choice.

BTW, Lagoon 400s all come with 400 litre fuel tankage. Used carefully this will provide an engine range of approximately 1000 NM.

[Desert Rat]

Wow, thank you all for the replies. The knowledge you all passed on was what I was looking for.

Our plan is to purchase the boat in two to three years and keep it in the San Francisco Bay Area until we are ready to untie in five to six years. This would give us two to three years to train on monohulls at a sailing club then start to train on "the" boat for another two years. Since we live in Reno, NV (desert), it would make it a four hour drive to be on the boat, great for weekends and vacations.

The idea (right now) is to sail the Sea of Cortez for a year, then make our way down south to Panama, make the passage to the Caribbean. We would also like to visit the East Coast of the United States as I have never been. Once completed, we would like to make the passage across the Atlantic to the Mediterranean.

Ultimately I would like to do the South Pacific but my wife isn't sold on that idea yet due to the long passages. I think after we have done the first portion of our cruising, we will have the knowledge and skills needed to make the crossing.

With that in mind, if would be mostly offshore cruising (whatever the definition is) with some long passages. Because of the possibility of long passages, the need/want of large fuel supplies would be needed to run the generator, having the ability to run motors for some extended time due to high pressure systems (no wind), possibility of getting out of the way of a impending storm, etc.

As I understand from your posts, the catamaran's need less wind to power the boat, and the lighter the boat the better. As we are working off of knowledge gained from my ASA classes and the very little cruising experience on a monohull, we needed about 10-15kts of air to power the boats we were on.

Looks like my wife and I are in need of a week or so on a catamaran to learn the differences and experience the capabilities and limitations of the cat.

Since our retirement funds wont be astronomical (law enforcement and teacher), we will also be limited on what we can purchase. I really like the idea of a new purchase and could afford the monthly payment, but do I really want that stress while sailing? I would prefer to pay cash and from what I have seen, there are plenty of pre-owned cats and mono's out there within our price range of $250K.

I am very excited about the possibilities this new found freedom will bring us when we finally begin our adventure.

Thanks again everyone.

[snort]

I would definitely buy something used. Someone has already been through the process of tricking out the boat, and a fiberglass hull is good for years and years of use.
All at a discount price!
Go visit lots of boats when you have time, talk to lots of people who know sailboats, and the right boat will present itself.
Your really don't need to spend that much money on a solid boat. If you go bigger, the cost of every little piece is exponentially bigger too.

[barnakiel]

Are we talking a sailing cat or a power cat?

A sailing cat does not need fuel for sailing.

Sure thing, a motor is super nice when entering a harbour / marina or anchorage. And some boats use diesel for power generation. Cats tend to be light and power well. They generally have small engines and so smaller tanks are fine.

Our fuel tank is 10 gallons. We never used all of it in one go, not even in Panama canal. Small mono here.

Cheers,
b.

[Stumble]

While I do appreciate the desire to buy new, in my entire family's history I think we have bought exactly one new boat (a 18' ski boat and a dingy if you count it). Every other boat from fishing boats to ocean going sailboats have been purchased used. The depreciation hit is just too large. Buying a lightly used six year old boat for half the new price that has been used for a couple hundred hours is a far cheaper option.

Honestly for your expected plan, a 40ish foot cat sound perfect to me. Six to eight years old with a couple hundred hours on the engines and you have basically an unused boat for a fraction the price. Add new sails, some outfitting and updating, and you are set for years of cruising.

One thing I would suggest is to only outfit her for the next step. Don't add a lot of offshore stuff for the Carribean, don't add heaters until you head north. It's just far to easy to add stuff that will never be used for a trip you may never do.

[solarbri]

If you live in Reno, you should befriend the fellow on this site with the name "multihuler". Awesome guy, lives in Reno, has bought and sold over 100 multihulls in his life. Currently owns WAY too many multihulls, and has more knowledge about good deals on multis than nearly anyone (afaik). Definitely worth your time and money (buy him a beer, or dinner) going to talk boats with him....

[jdazey]

Originally Posted by solarbri

If you live in Reno, you should befriend the fellow on this site with the name "multihuler". Awesome guy, lives in Reno, has bought and sold over 100 multihulls in his life. Currently owns WAY too many multihulls, and has more knowledge about good deals on multis than nearly anyone (afaik). Definitely worth your time and money (buy him a beer, or dinner) going to talk boats with him....

In fact I believe he has a Cross 42 trimaran for sale that might suit your needs very nicely.

cheers,

[DavidLGCrawford]

On our cat (which is for sale), we carry 64 gallons in the two tanks, and 28 gallons on deck. The 30hp engines burn about 1/2 gl per hour which gives us close to a thousand miles.
With the sails up we use zero gallons.
And with our gennaker/reacher out we can move in almost any wind.

[andrewTSY]

I like both of your choices on the mono and multi hull! How is your planning coming along? I am in your position as well, except I don't have a woman haha. I will have a crew. Do you have any over the horizon voyages in mind?

[Spartanacus]

Some good advice here. I too sail in and sail away without engine power almost always ... fuel consumption is nil ... motto is "when it blows we go". Cats can ghost along at 5 Knots with moderate breeze and a spinnaker.
Your sailing plans include the eastern seaboard/Florida and Bahamas ... it must be noted that cats can comfortably go in these shallow waters mentioned. 40 ft cats generally have 3.5 to 4 ft draft, a real plus here in FL.

[joesail]

Tom and Mage you stress adequate storage. This is a big concern as my wife and I shop for Cats to move aboard. Wife thinks we need 50 foot to have enough room and storage but I'd like to stay under 45 so we can get into more marinas and anchorages. And the price of a used 50 is through the roof.

We have an older 44 mono now and we have no where near the storage needed for just clothes and supplies. I'd be interested if you are able to store everything you want (not just need) in your 40 or if you would recommend a slightly larger size and for what reasons.

If I am to sell everything I own and move aboard I need to feel like my cat is a nice tidy home with a place for supplies and everything I need.

Maybe a little OCD working here too.

Wife has to be happy or my liveabord days are numbered.

[geoff326]

Originally Posted by snort

I would definitely buy something used. Someone has already been through the process of tricking out the boat, and a fiberglass hull is good for years and years of use.
All at a discount price!
Go visit lots of boats when you have time, talk to lots of people who know sailboats, and the right boat will present itself.
Your really don't need to spend that much money on a solid boat. If you go bigger, the cost of every little piece is exponentially bigger too.

Based on the asking prices of catamarans of recent vintage, I do wonder if it isn't better to buy new, if that's the category you're looking for.
In fact one of the contributors to this forum who was in the market for a Helia 44 gave up looking for a second hand one because the owners expected the new price( or even more) for something that was used!

[snort]

Originally Posted by geoff326

Based on the asking prices of catamarans of recent vintage, I do wonder if it isn't better to buy new, if that's the category you're looking for.
In fact one of the contributors to this forum who was in the market for a Helia 44 gave up looking for a second hand one because the owners expected the new price( or even more) for something that was used!

No doubt there is an abundance of people who think their used goods have gold lining....somewhere, but there are also people who price their boats at a fair or even great price. It takes time to find these, sometimes years, but they do exist.