Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 31-08-2012, 09:03   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Boat: Privilege 482
Posts: 363
Delamination in a Privilege?

We are in a dilemma. We just had a 20 year old Privilege surveyed and the report back on the hull condition noted some areas of dull sounds that indicated potential delamination. There were several spots in the interior of the port engine room, an area on the port outboard hull just below the first stanchion, and some areas noted on the interior of the hull from within the starboard storage compartment just aft of the bow. Some other areas, such as the floor/bulkhead joint in the anchor locker were also noted, but this area is an easier repair and not as "structural".

This report has my wife and I pretty concerned. It's one thing if we can investigate and repair these areas and be done... but the worry is that this is indicative of a larger issue and we'll continue to see delamination issues as the boat continues to age. The broker doesn't think it's much of a big deal as he views the Privileges as overbuilt tanks and even if a small area has delaminated, just fix it and don't worry (and yes, I know he has an incentive to say so and make the deal go through). I also consulted another person very familiar with catamaran repairs and he is also saying that the Privilege line is renowned for its build quality and would be surprised if these were all truly delaminated areas.

So I guess the question is this: Does anyone have any experience with a delaminated Privilege? Or do they simply not exist? I don't want to kill the deal if I'm overreacting, but I also don't want to buy a boat on the verge of falling apart.
__________________

__________________
teneicm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-2012, 09:27   #2
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
Re: Delamination in a Privilege?

I can't speak specific to Privilege, but I think there are a couple of further questions you might want to pursue. First of all, what sort of coring are you dealing with? From what I understand, it's easier to repair these with foam cores rather than balsa.

Is there a way to determine if these are more properly voids left from manufacturing (If I recall correctly, Privilege in this era were hand-laid and not resin infusion, with hand laid being more subject to occasional voids) or if they are delamination of previously sound areas due to structural stress/impact/water intrusion? If voids, then I wouldn't be nearly as worried (after all, if that's the case then the boat has gone 20 years with the existing void without water intrusion or failure).

Then, one of the big factors will be what is in there when the repair is commenced. Dry is obviously good. Wet is not. Did the surveyor use a moisture meter?

In summary, I think you have some more questions to get answered before you can make a decision how to react and whether you want to pursue this boat. If you otherwise really like this boat, then you might want to see if the owner will negotiate on the repair, leaving you an option to walk away if you don't like what you see when the repair gets going.

ID
__________________

__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-2012, 09:49   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Boat: Privilege 482
Posts: 363
Re: Delamination in a Privilege?

You are correct- it's hand laid up with a foam core. Some of the "dull sounds" persist for an area larger than a small void. Some of the areas are associated with a higher (55-80) reading on a Tramex moisture meter, other were not.

I like the idea of having the owner perform the repairs and then see what happens... but I doubt the owner would go for that.
__________________
teneicm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-2012, 10:01   #4
Marine Service Provider
 
FLLCatsailor's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 452
Re: Delamination in a Privilege?

Quote:
Originally Posted by teneicm View Post
You are correct- it's hand laid up with a foam core. Some of the "dull sounds" persist for an area larger than a small void. Some of the areas are associated with a higher (55-80) reading on a Tramex moisture meter, other were not.

I like the idea of having the owner perform the repairs and then see what happens... but I doubt the owner would go for that.

You never know what the seller will do or not do until you ask... I did a seatrial for a broker a few months ago, and the hulls were badly blistered and delam was prevolent... THe seller hadn't had much action on his boat, and was willing to pay over 10k to fix the delam to ensure the sale went through.

Only concern I would have is the fact that the boat is 20 years old... 20 year old boats can have quite a few gremlins lurking that don't always show up in survey...
__________________
FLLCatsailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-2012, 10:12   #5
CF Adviser
 
Intentional Drifter's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Pac NW
Boat: Boatless, for now, Cat enthusiast
Posts: 1,283
Re: Delamination in a Privilege?

I think at the end of the day, you get down to this: There's only so much that non-destructive testing can tell you. To find out more, you've got to make some holes. Even the moisture meters can have inaccuracies and a rather wide standard error of measurement due to factors not related to the actual void.

If the owner is willing to make some holes and let you and your surveyor see what comes out, then maybe it's worth going the next step. Personally, I'd be very hesitant to make any more of a commitment than that. It could be pretty easily fixed and have little to no adverse future implications, in the case of a manufacturing void, or it could be a long, expensive nightmare that leaves you with an unsettling lack of confidence in the boat. Of course, you really don't want that.

ID
__________________
Intentional Drifter

Observations are gold; hypotheses, silver; and conclusions, bronze.

Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.--Ben Franklin

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts.--Daniel Patrick Moynihan
Intentional Drifter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-2012, 10:28   #6
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Ft Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 80
Re: Delamination in a Privilege?

I learned a long time ago that wood can rot, steel can rust, and fibre-glass can delaminate or blister when it comes to boats.

When it comes to buying boats, I advise my clients that 'newer=better'.

Of course this does not always apply, but a 20 year old boat is quite old.

The older Privileges are built very well, they are strong boats, but some of the features such as the salon windows looking at the sky and generating lots of greenhouse effect in the salon instead of offering 360 degrees visibility are features from the past in my opinion.

If you decide to continue your purchase, don't negotiate an allowance to get it fixed, but let the Buyer pay for the repairs and close afterwards. These kind of repairs often result in 'double the time and triple the budget'.

good luck, Peter
__________________
catabroker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-2012, 10:52   #7
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: Delamination in a Privilege?

I guess you cant fit a jackstand tight to the outside of the hull to see if you observe a huge distortion?

I wonder how dull sound this spots , a bit is ok, remember is a 20 year old structure, many 20 old years botas have some isues , if the boat is tank build like a privilege and the spots are not located in a structural spot, dont worry to much, grind and try to peel the first layer of glass , now if the area is wet and water migrate around , bad stuff.

__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-2012, 11:13   #8
Registered User
 
KatKokomo's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Asia
Boat: Quasar 50, catamaran
Posts: 79
Re: Delamination in a Privilege?

Privileges are known for delamination problems.
When I was looking at a privilege years ago I also found one with big areas of delamination and always leaking windows.
__________________
KatKokomo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-2012, 14:42   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2007
Boat: Privilege 482
Posts: 363
Re: Delamination in a Privilege?

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatKokomo View Post
Privileges are known for delamination problems.
When I was looking at a privilege years ago I also found one with big areas of delamination and always leaking windows.
Leaky windows are a known issue, but was wondering if you could expand on your "known for delamination problems" comment. Is this just from the one boat you looked at or others? Actually, most people I've talked seem to put Prouts and Privileges together into the same bucket as far as overbuilt robust boats go.......
__________________
teneicm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 31-08-2012, 16:07   #10
Registered User
 
KatKokomo's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Asia
Boat: Quasar 50, catamaran
Posts: 79
Re: Delamination in a Privilege?

I was looking for a Privilege out of the charter fleet a along time ago. I talked to the maintenance crew of the charter company. That is where I got my first information.
They warned me about the delamination problems.
5 years ago I looked at another Privilege that had this major delamination problem.
I bought a Prout.
__________________

__________________
KatKokomo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
delamination, privilege

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 18:44.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.