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Old 15-09-2016, 12:27   #1
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Deal Breakers

We are finally at the point where we are actually going to see potential boats. We traveled in June to see a Cat in Florida, that looked great on line.. was in our price range.. and ticketed off all those "must have's"....

When we got there.. the first thing we saw was delamination. This turned out to be a 'deal breaker" for me. It was a Fontaine Pajot... one of the models that happened to have these issues. It isn't simply something that can be fixed once, it will be an ongoing problem, and will make the boat VERY difficult to resell...

Had I known there was delamination, we wouldn't have traveled that far to see it. So, now, it's the first question out of my mouth.

Can you give me an idea of what your "deal breakers" are when looking at boats?
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Old 15-09-2016, 12:37   #2
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Re: Deal Breakers

Volvo engine


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Old 15-09-2016, 12:39   #3
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Re: Deal Breakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by zippy View Post
Volvo engine


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zippy... just to clarify.. you will NOT buy a cat with a Volvo engine, right? care to share some details?
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Old 15-09-2016, 14:52   #4
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Re: Deal Breakers

Misrepresentation

I understand that the seller will try to represent his boat in the best light.

I happened to look at a boat the other day that was represented as having recently purchased sails. When I went to view, the sails were not new, not even old, be ancient. The seller wanted to deal on the sales as a side sale.

Easy to walk away
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Old 15-09-2016, 14:54   #5
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Re: Deal Breakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlet View Post
We are finally at the point where we are actually going to see potential boats. We traveled in June to see a Cat in Florida, that looked great on line.. was in our price range.. and ticketed off all those "must have's"....



When we got there.. the first thing we saw was delamination. This turned out to be a 'deal breaker" for me. It was a Fontaine Pajot... one of the models that happened to have these issues. It isn't simply something that can be fixed once, it will be an ongoing problem, and will make the boat VERY difficult to resell...



Had I known there was delamination, we wouldn't have traveled that far to see it. So, now, it's the first question out of my mouth.



Can you give me an idea of what your "deal breakers" are when looking at boats?

Did you mean blisters or delamination?


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Old 15-09-2016, 16:14   #6
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Re: Deal Breakers

Structural defects -- one boat we went to see that was only about 18 months old, one of the forward bulkheads was broken off the overhead, ironically, it was advertised as in as new condition, and when we got there, no test sail would have been possible, as the engine was in pieces all over the cabin sole. Boat hunting is hard work, and I don't think it's possible to think of all the questions to ask, because there's so much deviousness.

Deal breakers for us,
No Volvo engines -- parts costs plus unreliability ("Green Death")
No saildrives -- friends with them have had way more problems than with shaft drives
No split rigs -- prefer cutters for ocean work
No spade rudders -- prefer skeg hung rudder

Buying a cat, you're probably going to have saildrives. They seem to last best when meticulously maintained. Only the Volvo one might apply for you, the rest are monohull issues.

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Old 15-09-2016, 16:24   #7
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Re: Deal Breakers

Any boat spending X years in the tropics with no ongoing maintenance, this is a deal breaker. So that's how we take out 50% of all potential boats all at once. ;-)

Now, more specifically, boats with original teak decks screwed onto grp/plywood or grp/foam structures. Teak over steel too, unless spotless.

Also boats where the engine looks as if soap, rags and touch up paint never existed.

As well as boats with hull to deck joint known to be executed with hope and rivets.

Boats that smell bad. Rusty boats. Dented boats. Boats without mother (boatyard) and father (designer).

Etc.

Disclosure: I do not buy. I assist potential new owners in finding the right boats (= avoiding the bad apples).

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Old 15-09-2016, 16:34   #8
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Re: Deal Breakers

Just to clarify the Volvo issue is not consistent per reliability across the board, but I agree with parts side of issue.

My Volvo diesel is still giving reliable service with good compression after 38 years. Started first go after 9 months sitting during a partial refit this year. Plus it can be started without a battery if needed via hand crank.

Still has years left in it and will be replaced with another 38 year old running Volvo I keep as a spare just in case as I refuse to pay the $7500-$10,000 for a new one. The two will probably outlive me.
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Old 15-09-2016, 17:43   #9
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Re: Deal Breakers

Two things:

1. Trust your nose. If a boat smells damp, there's likely water/moisture issues. If the holding tank area smells sulfuric, venting issues. If you smell fuel, oil, etc.

2. Signs of idiotic DIY. Diff for every boat - if PO created his own thru-hull without proper backing, random wiring thtas poorly done, drilled holes Willy nilly, doors don't fit, stored gas inside, etc - I wouldn't trust the boat. In a cat, be sure to check the bulkheads - they aren't just there to spread the load of the exterior hull.
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Old 15-09-2016, 17:47   #10
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Re: Deal Breakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
Did you mean blisters or delamination?


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Sorry... I saw blisters. I thought that was a sign of delimitation.
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Old 15-09-2016, 18:33   #11
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Re: Deal Breakers

I don't claim to be an expert on this stuff, but as a buyer searching for a boat I have seen some things that would cause me to walk away from some boats. For the sake of this discussion, I will just add a brief few:

Black Stuff on Boats

1. Black Mold
While some sellers may clean the visible surfaces, I don't trust it will ever be completely eliminated once its spores have gotten everywhere in a boat, including behind all the furniture,cushions, fabrics, lockers etc. I do not want to live with it.

2. Black Rot
In wood boats it can be the death of the boat. And in wood trim, furniture, and structural parts, on plastic boats, it can cause weaknesses and costly replacements or repairs. A little may be expected, but much would be too much for me.

3. Black oil outside of the engine.
An oil covered engine, engine compartment, and bilge strike me as a sign of poor maintenance and/or seals.

4. Black teak sealant caulk in some cases
When seen popping up (or missing) everywhere on a teak deck or smeared on decks where it is obvious the seller has had serious leaks in the deck or has not properly maintained them.

5. Black hull in the tropics.
While a black hull's effect on inside cabin temperature has debatable effect (see topics discussed here on CF), I prefer lighter colors and want a cooler boat in hot waters, and science shows that black surfaces absorb, rather than reflect more of the solar energy (and heat). The black hull would not bother me in the PNW or Northern, cold water.
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Old 15-09-2016, 18:55   #12
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Re: Deal Breakers

My wife and I are about to purchase a cat. There are NO cats anywhere near where we live. We are sending a surveyor to look at a cat before we fly where it is. We are well aware of how nice a boat may look online, and stories like Scarlet's substantiate this. Surveyor afar will be money well spent. Most are willing to do a walkthrough for a couple hundred bucks and if you buy the boat they'll apply the walkthrough fee to the full survey cost.
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Old 15-09-2016, 19:37   #13
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Re: Deal Breakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarlet View Post
We are finally at the point where we are actually going to see potential boats. We traveled in June to see a Cat in Florida, that looked great on line.. was in our price range.. and ticketed off all those "must have's"....

When we got there.. the first thing we saw was delamination. This turned out to be a 'deal breaker" for me. It was a Fontaine Pajot... one of the models that happened to have these issues. It isn't simply something that can be fixed once, it will be an ongoing problem, and will make the boat VERY difficult to resell...

Had I known there was delamination, we wouldn't have traveled that far to see it. So, now, it's the first question out of my mouth.

Can you give me an idea of what your "deal breakers" are when looking at boats?
The Wife
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Old 15-09-2016, 19:49   #14
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Re: Deal Breakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady Hand View Post

1. Black Mold
While some sellers may clean the visible surfaces, I don't trust it will ever be completely eliminated once its spores have gotten everywhere in a boat, including behind all the furniture,cushions, fabrics, lockers etc. I do not want to live with it..
If they've cleaned the visible surfaces... how would you know it is there?
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Old 15-09-2016, 20:27   #15
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Re: Deal Breakers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Code Blue View Post
My wife and I are about to purchase a cat. There are NO cats anywhere near where we live. We are sending a surveyor to look at a cat before we fly where it is. We are well aware of how nice a boat may look online, and stories like Scarlet's substantiate this. Surveyor afar will be money well spent. Most are willing to do a walkthrough for a couple hundred bucks and if you buy the boat they'll apply the walkthrough fee to the full survey cost.
^ +1
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