Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 25-12-2012, 17:06   #31
Registered User
 
waikikin's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Sydney
Boat: Egan 12.40 in build, Carter 33, Seawind 24
Posts: 162
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Having bought written off boats from Club Marine in the past prior to them re-instating and reselling them themselves i just don't get the negative attitude to a repair like this.

Glass is fantastic to repair as stressed areas from the UNCOATED are is quite easy to see.

A repair like this would open up all advantages with regard to opportunities to do it how it should be done, Lagoon simply run all cabling and water supply hoses in the bilge zip tied together it would be ideal to run these separate and in a ship-like manner.

Likewise there would be an opportunity to cap the keel leaving a bilge pot to draw water from.

Insurance is not a problem provided the repair is done in a professional way, in this day and age and with this kind of money involved it would be smart to get a surveyor to oversee photographing and noting at critical stages to satisfy the "Insurance Question".

A project like this.........LET ME AT IT!!!!!
I agree, there's often plenty of details to improve on some production boats & having a surveyor document repair/rebuild actions is great advice. Although a large undertaking, the mechanics of this rebuild are pretty straight forward & at the right $ someone could end up with a really nice vessel for some effort, I certainly wouldn't kick it off the dock...............
Jeff.
__________________

__________________
waikikin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2012, 17:25   #32
CF Adviser
 
Pelagic's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Boat: Van Helleman Schooner 65ft StarGazer
Posts: 6,895
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

Quote:
Originally Posted by neilpride View Post
Holy ****, the tug use a metal wire to pull or what?? ...
Just what kind of towline should the tug have used to pull a stranded boat off the reef?
__________________

__________________
Pelagic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2012, 17:31   #33
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

Some points to consider:-
To rebuild this Lagoon will not sell any mouldings to effect the repair simply because it will interrupt there build process and they would rather sell a completed boat.

SO you have to take lines/offsets from an existing boat involving putting a grid pattern onto their boat and measuring the shapes.

Then you would cut floors and batten up to give you something to attach your core to, a bit akin to doing a sugar scoop extension.

I doubt Lagoon would give you the offsets so i'd find a 450 owner due to slip and cover his slipping costs in exchange for taking templates off it.

Disregarding re-sale and more considering it for me i'd even look at modifying for shaft drives etc.

But for sure it would give you the chance to cap the keels, re-route wiring and pipework etc etc.

BUT you must remember they are selling new ones fairly cheap so maybe that 150k might need to be 95k or so, i would think a budget of 200k plus a lot of free labour would get her sailing again, more for someone hiring expertise...

Cheers
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2012, 19:03   #34
Registered User
 
neilpride's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: in the world
Boat: csy 44 tall rig.
Posts: 3,099
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelagic View Post
Just what kind of towline should the tug have used to pull a stranded boat off the reef?
I dont say it seriously, probably the tug use a synthetic line to pull the cata off the reef, maybe a 8 strand line, but i have a friend working for a tow company and he say to me that in cases of yachts stuck in rocks or reefs the WL of the line is better if is a bit lower than the weight of the vessel, in case the boat is welded to the reef the line just snap!

It happen here in St Marteen in Marigot , after a long night with swells about 4 meter , a Dufour broke the anchor chain and end in the top of the beach, next morning the tow salvage boat come to try to pull the yacht to deep water, what we see is that the beach is surrounded by rocky bottom and the keel is just deep buried in sand , the tow boat pull , pull hard , the boat start to move but keel broke off and after that the boat start to bounce in the rocky bottom without keel, the rest is just a nice boat sunk in 15 ft of water , and the keel resting in the beach , carnage....

If you take a look at the picture you can see in the pic n4 or 5 that the tug is draging the cata in a rocky bottom with maybe 2 o ft of water deep riping apart both hulls below waterline sections.

Well who know, i dont blame the tug , maybe the tug operator dont know how thin are Lagoon hulls...


And yes , well at 150000 $$ i think is expensive , im not sure if Lagoons core the hulls above waterline , also the materials used in the repair, is not the same a gallon of West than a Gallon of Polyester resin, also i think that to Laminate inside properly need to dismantle the interior, doors, bulkheads, furniture , and Lagoon made some inside interiors in one big piece, droping with a crane the pieces before hull to deck marriage,
so we talk about making new interiors as well i guess, without molds the repair never macht the original specifications , meaning that if you want to put the boat in the market someone is going to ask what happen with the vessel.

After hurricane Luis many come here to buy holed boats, many sucess , others get ruined in the adventure, my 2 cents that the Insurance company drop the price or trash the Lagoon, everyday the boat in the hard is money, and i guess this is more than 50000 U$ repair bill ...
Good luck for the future buyer .....
__________________
neilpride is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2012, 19:46   #35
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 43 & S2 6.9
Posts: 963
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

Quote:
Originally Posted by ausaviator View Post
I liken this to me submitting a $20k tender for a damaged aircraft worth $300k that literally cost $10 to get airborne again! True story. You've gotta be in it to win it.
How is this at all comparable? Even if you could talk them down to $20k on it, it's going to be far more than $10 to fix it.

I agree with others that it can be repaired, but at what cost and what reasonable price could it then be sold at?
__________________
maytrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2012, 19:58   #36
Long Range Cruiser
 
MarkJ's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Australian living on "Sea Life" currently in England.
Boat: Beneteau 393 "Sea Life"
Posts: 12,828
Images: 25
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

Quote:
Originally Posted by maytrix View Post
what reasonable price could it then be sold at?
Because the fixer would never have faith in it to sail it around the world themselves.

So basically it comes down to a straight financial thing... Get it cheap, fix it up, flog it off to some unsuspecting bunny.

Like that its almost a fraud, aint it?
__________________
Notes on a Circumnavigation.
OurLifeAtSea.com

Somalia Pirates and our Convoy
MarkJ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 25-12-2012, 21:14   #37
Registered User
 
Sand crab's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Boat: 34' Crowther tri sold 16' Kayak now
Posts: 3,157
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
You must remember they are selling new ones fairly cheap so maybe that 150k might need to be 95k or so, i would think a budget of 200k plus a lot of free labour would get her sailing again, more for someone hiring expertise...

Cheers
All the used 2012 L450s are listed for over $500K US. I'll bet a new one will add another 100K+ to that. I'm just sayin they ain't cheap.
__________________
We don't need no stinking badges.
Sand crab is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2012, 04:52   #38
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

My point is this boat at end of repair will likely cost out at 380k, it will always have a cloud over it, a new one costs a further 125k+ that isn't much margin.

If i or maybe 6 others that i know capable of repairing such damage as this would not deter me from sailing anywhere afterwards contrary to Marks point.

Fraud? I do not think so!!!! Any surveyor worth his salt will know the repair work that has been done.

As far as identity goes, the HIN number is branded into every moulding on these boats.

The boat is fixable, the boat will likely come out quite nicely if the work is carried out by a shipwright, however it won't be cheap.

Yes Lagoon are doing very cheap deals right now on many cancelled orders in Europe and on showboats, America maybe different, i don't know that market.
__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2012, 04:54   #39
Armchair Bucketeer
 
David_Old_Jersey's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 10,013
Images: 4
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkJ View Post
Because the fixer would never have faith in it to sail it around the world themselves.

So basically it comes down to a straight financial thing... Get it cheap, fix it up, flog it off to some unsuspecting bunny.

Like that its almost a fraud, aint it?
If she doesn't become landfill I suspect that is how she will go.

Albeit I think less risk to be made by selling the boat to an optimist as is - along with the "fix" planned out. If it takes the buyer a couple of hundred grand to realise that they are actually rebuilding around the cup holders with the added bonus that the boat won't get past the equivalent of being 2 cars welded together then it's not a problem, not unless it is "you" writing the cheques!
David_Old_Jersey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2012, 04:55   #40
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,028
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

Quote:
Originally Posted by ausaviator View Post
I liken this to me submitting a $20k tender for a damaged aircraft worth $300k that literally cost $10 to get airborne again! True story. You've gotta be in it to win it.
This deal is going to be very different. This is substantial damage and not a $10 repair.

If you have the guts to repair it for yourself, why not. I don't. It could well be your last boat (either because you can't sell or because you will be lost at sea).


If you are trying to make money of this it can only happen by talking some friendly idiot into a deal he doesn't understand. You will not be able to fix it to original specifications. Every buyer will notice and this will draw off the vast majority of buyers (say 95%).

Any buyer will have serious doubts about the structural integrity and longevity of the repair.
I would not bet my life on the quality of such a repair done by someone who is obviously looking to make as much money on it as possible.



There is a 2001 Lagoon 410 for sale for under 200k USD asking and still negotiable. Based on the name of the boat I suppose it's of German origin and has European VAT paid. Would be a steal if the boat had a normal history.
But this one was rebuilt after beeing flipped in a hurricane. I heard there was no structural damage and the job was done under supervision of the new owner, who also own the largest chain of marine chandleries in the caribbean. So I suppose this was a professional job.
Has been for sale for quite some time now... Go figure
__________________
rabbi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2012, 06:59   #41
Registered User
 
Zanshin's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Caribbean
Boat: Jeanneau 57
Posts: 1,621
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

I'll be at Nanny Cay in a couple of weeks and perhaps, over a drink or two, I can hear the story directly from Husky.

Whatever happened, it is sad that the boat has such a short life.
__________________
-Zanshin (SV Zanshin)
Zanshin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2012, 10:08   #42
Registered User
 
Capt Phil's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Stateline NV
Boat: Prior boats: Transpac 49; DeFever 54
Posts: 2,749
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

Not that I have a wealth of experience pulling boats off rocks, but my recollection is that the salver or towing skipper needs to have a very thorough understanding of how the vessel grounded, ie. speed, direction, weather and sea conditions, what the makeup of the rock or shoal looks like underwater, current and prospective weather, sea and tide conditions, how long has she been grounded, some idea of the structural issues of the hull strengthwise and how has the vessel stood up to the pounding she has received and for how long.
You need to scope all this out in a very short period of time before attempting to get her off otherwise you risk your own vessel and crew as well as significant and unintended damage to the grounded vessel. Usually, the owner/operator of the grounded vessel is more than a little agitated and can be driving you to make a hasty and bad decision but getting their boat afloat again with a minimum of damage is many times not helped by their suggestions/demands.
It breaks my heart to see someones pride and joy and occasionally their home being ground to pieces in front of their eyes, but the salver really needs to take a step back and think through the pull very carefully. Having a Plan B and Plan C is very important.
Preservation of life is the most important consideration in any sea rescue. Phil
__________________
Capt Phil is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2012, 14:29   #43
Registered User
 
Fearnow's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Annapolis, Maryland
Boat: Lagoon 420
Posts: 241
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

I contacted the broker, but didn't get a return call, yet. Do most of you concur that the price to repair the boat will be around $200k usd?
Why couldn't the salvage people put a few of those airbags under the middle of the boat, and gently pull it off the reef?
I herd the captain put the boat on auto, while cruising close to shore, then went down below. I saw the pictures, right after it happened. Real sad situation.
__________________
Fearnow is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2012, 14:33   #44
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 43 & S2 6.9
Posts: 963
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

I believe the waves were about 6' from a post I saw elsewhere, so I think getting bags under to help float it would have been difficult and dangerous to the salvage crew.
__________________
maytrix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 26-12-2012, 14:43   #45
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Fethiye Turkey
Boat: Lagoon 440
Posts: 3,164
Re: Damaged 2012 Lagoon 450, Only $150K

Would think Keels, Rudders and Legs have been smashed and the stress would have fairly destroyed the support structures, all wiring, shower base mouldings which are part of an internal liner/module section would be severely damaged also. See pic, it's not a 450 BUT similar in design.

200k would be very conservative, you'd really have to assess and get firm quotes for whatever falls out of your individual scope of ability... Cheers
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Bloc-WC.jpg
Views:	154
Size:	53.4 KB
ID:	51728  
__________________

__________________
"Political correctness is a creeping sickness that knows no boundaries"
Lagoon4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
lagoon

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:48.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.