Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 06-03-2009, 16:48   #1
Registered User
 
C--man's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Noosa, Australia
Boat: 9' Zociac (fastroller)
Posts: 60
Images: 1
Cutter-rig

I see a lot of them on Cats

when I went sailing on a Windspeed 40 all that staysail seem to do was foul the Jenny when we tacked.

I did not notice any extra power from the staysail.

Am I missing something?

Thanks guys
__________________

__________________
C--man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 19:28   #2
Senior Cruiser
 
skipmac's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: 29 49.16 N 82 25.82 W
Boat: Pearson 422
Posts: 12,372
Yes.

Several uses and benefits from the staysail. To me the best is for rough weather furl the jib and sail with reefed main and staysail. More balanced rig and you don't have to go to the bow to change jibs.

The extra stays give a stronger rig.
__________________

__________________
The water is always bluer on the other side of the ocean.
skipmac is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2009, 22:42   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
roverhi's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Kona, Hawaii, Carlsbad, CA
Boat: 1969 Pearson 35 #108 & 1976 Sabre 28
Posts: 6,003
Send a message via Yahoo to roverhi
It depends on the boat. There needs to be enough space between the stays to make an effective slot and the J needs to be large enough to get enough area for the staysail. On our Westsail 32, we sailed with the cutter rig most of the time while offshore. Without roller furling, the ability to sail from ghosting conditions to a full on gale only having to make one sail change was a blessing. We had a fairly lightweight genoa that we used up to 9-10 knots of wind then the double headsail with a change down to the Yankee that carried us up to 20-25 knots depending on the point of sail. Then drop the jib. We never had to get there, but we could reef the staysail and raise the already hanked on tri-sail if things got really snotty.

Aloha
Peter O.
Pearson 35
__________________
roverhi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-03-2009, 00:15   #4
Senior Cruiser
 
rebel heart's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 6,190
Images: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by skipmac View Post
Yes.

Several uses and benefits from the staysail. To me the best is for rough weather furl the jib and sail with reefed main and staysail. More balanced rig and you don't have to go to the bow to change jibs.

The extra stays give a stronger rig.
I'd agree with most of that, and add in that in rough weather having your staysail to work with is very nice. It's about 7' from the bow, so plenty of room and you're not out on the widowmaker.
__________________
rebel heart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 04:05   #5
Registered User
 
Heikki's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Finland
Boat: Stormwind 40 cutter rigged steel ketch - "Columba Livia"
Posts: 90
For us, sailing with both genny and staysail seems to add a good half a knot of speed when close hauled or reaching. I sure welcome all additional speed. They both have a furling gear, so it is very easy to use. Should one of them suddenly be too much, just reef or completely roll-in the one and you stil have a balanced sail plan. We sure love that. We also value the extra security of two stays.

Talking about the distance of the stays, we also have about 7' clearance on the deck level. Much smaller slot will sure diminish some of the benefits.
__________________
Heikki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-03-2009, 09:54   #6
Senior Cruiser
 
Jim Cate's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: cruising SW Pacific
Boat: Jon Sayer 1-off 46 ft fract rig sloop strip plank in W Red Cedar
Posts: 11,440
On our previous boat, an IOR Mk2 one tonner (retired), we found that keeping the stays'l up actually made tacking the genoa easier if we did the genny first. The now backwinded stay s'l kept the genny from fouling on the inner stay and the baby stay. Once the genny came through, we tacked the stays'l.

When hard on the wind in that boat, the stays'l seemed to neither improve or impair the boatspeed. Once cracked off to say 70 deg or so, it seemed to help in light airs.

Back before the development of good flat reaching kites, lots of racers used a high-cut reaching "jib topsail" set over a stays'l in close reaching conditions, and it seemed to work quite well.

So, there can be advantages to using a double head rig, but it is quite dependant upon the individual boats characteristics. Some experimentation is called for! Can be fun...

Cheers,

Jim and Ann s/v Insatiable II lying Gladstone Qld Oz
__________________
Jim Cate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2009, 02:44   #7
Registered User
 
C--man's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Noosa, Australia
Boat: 9' Zociac (fastroller)
Posts: 60
Images: 1
some good feedback.........

Thanks.
__________________
C--man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2009, 04:34   #8
Registered User
 
Heikki's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Finland
Boat: Stormwind 40 cutter rigged steel ketch - "Columba Livia"
Posts: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Cate View Post
On our previous boat, an IOR Mk2 one tonner (retired), we found that keeping the stays'l up actually made tacking the genoa easier if we did the genny first. The now backwinded stay s'l kept the genny from fouling on the inner stay and the baby stay. Once the genny came through, we tacked the stays'l.
I completely agree with the method described in the above. You may have already noted that there is an entire thread about this issue. If I recall it correctly, Jim has posted some valuable comments on cutter stay issue on that thread as well:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...sue-23119.html
__________________
Heikki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2009, 05:54   #9
Registered User
 
C--man's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Noosa, Australia
Boat: 9' Zociac (fastroller)
Posts: 60
Images: 1
lots of good reading in that old thread, thanks!

I see this as a good answer to the "hang ups"



It worked well on my boats, two things: tack and dont release the headsail, then release it slowly so it will bulge through the gap before complete release. Also, If you have one long sheet, use it by putting a bend (loop) at the center of the length through the clew and then run the sheet ends through. this makes a nice small knot. Often the big double Bowlines would hang up on my staysail stay....
__________________
C--man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2009, 12:05   #10
CF Adviser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Wherever our boat is; Playa Zaragoza, Isla Margarita
Boat: 1994 Solaris Sunstream 40
Posts: 2,439
Cman, I have a cutter rig on my cat and, for extended cruising, wouldn't trade it for the now more common fractional rigs with flat-topped mains. Some advantages, as I see it:

1. As already mentioned, the rig tends to be much more solidly supported - mine has 10 separate pieces of standing rigging: the forestay, the staysail stay, twin backstays, plus six shrouds. Compare that to a forestay and as few as four shrouds.

2. Again as mentioned, I have a dedicated staysail/storm jib on roller reefing when the going gets tough. Remember that the weight of dacron on most jibs is inadequate for a true storm sail; further, remember that it is also best in heavy going to move your center of effort not only down, but in; finally, remember most sails retain better shape if only reefed by about 30% of the overall size.

The classic 'Prout', or cutter rig accomplishes all of this and, in most cats, does so with a large slot between headsails to facilitate tacking.

3. The main is smaller and hence, easier to hoist (no need for a power winch), easier to trim and both easier and more effective once reefed (flat top mains have terrible sail shape when reefed, keeping far too much sail area up high).

4. With the cutter rig, my mast is stepped at the companionway bulkhead - this is not only the strongest point on the bridgedeck, but a locationi which permits all lines to be led into the cockpit without the additional friction caused by various turning blocks, etc.

5. The Cutter rig tends to spread the sail area more fore and aft, than up and down; while this reduction in aspect ratio can hurt your performance in certain conditions, it it lowers the center of effort of the sail plan for a given sail area, thereby increasing your resistance to capsize.

Brad
__________________
Southern Star is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2009, 16:45   #11
Registered User
 
C--man's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Noosa, Australia
Boat: 9' Zociac (fastroller)
Posts: 60
Images: 1
thanks, Southern star-

yes the mainsail is an important consideration in that set-up

eaiser handling is very important to me, sail shape as well.
__________________
C--man is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2009, 17:12   #12
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,337
The staysail seems to come into it's own when you can roll up the headsail and carry forward under good control with the staysail and reefed main. On 3 boats, I set my staysail up so it was always hanked on, in a sturdy bag and ready for easy deployment. It's amazing how comfortable you can be in 35 knots moving 7+ knots without a headsail. The boat is upright, you are not taking water in the cockpit and with the boat moving you are not wallowing in the swells. Actually had some of my funest sailing with that setup. Unless you are a pretty big boat, any other use is tedious... except maybe long crossings.
__________________

__________________
Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cutter

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Running Backstay on Cutter Rig Sergy Monohull Sailboats 42 24-10-2010 16:21
Tacking a Cutter chkrhntr1945 General Sailing Forum 14 26-04-2009 09:41
Mystic 30 Cutter Legnos SkiprJohn Monohull Sailboats 0 08-02-2009 16:11
Hunter 37 Cutter Stede Monohull Sailboats 19 17-09-2007 18:51
Fractional cutter rig NoTies Construction, Maintenance & Refit 12 12-01-2006 19:01



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 10:42.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.