Cruising World Article

[Factor]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

You ignored the 'sails sheeted in tight, wind on the beam' part. Even Factor says that it would be stupid to do it. Leaving steering to the autopilot and cleating off the sheets (like cruisers do) would be really stupid at 30 knots and suicidal at 50.

Seriously you are entering the mind numbingly silly arena. So cruisers leave full sail up in 50 knots and let the autopilot drive - in 50 knots. That is just silly.

Its not that I am biased against cats because I have never sailed one. I raced a Hobie for 10 years and was Northern California champion for a couple of those. Great fun to push the boat in high winds, and I experienced the 4 modes of capsize repeatedly. BUT, when I capsized the Hobie, I could right it without outside assistance and it didn't damage the boat!

And yes a hobie is exactly like 12 metre cruising cat, exactly.

I admit to cat envy in a rolly anchorage, and they are a better party platform. I have done well over 100,000 sea miles and a dozen 2000 mile passages without requiring outside assistance. I believe I could safely run a cruising cat 98% of the time, but it would be less forgiving than a mono. However, because of the other 2% of the time I would probably buy a performance mono for my next offshore boat

I agree - if you think 50 knots with full sail is appropriate you should stick to half a boat.

I'll be on the sidelines until the next cat promoter starts to extol the safety and speed of cruising cats.

On balance a well designed& built sensibly sailed multi will be safer at sea than a mono - a well designed& built multi will also be quicker than a similar size mono.

Mate - when you are digging yourself into a hole, the first rule is STOP DIGGING.

You can have your ill informed opinion, I dont give a crap. But being strident and argumentative and aggressively silly is just a waste of everyone's time.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Usually i dont stick my nose in any multi hull thing topic unless is something not related to mono v multi ,but you know, seen from the outside it seems that you love the carnage,, like this topic, Dorys and Daisy multihull cruisingworld Article.... good for you, but jesus everytime you open your mouth the beer becomes expensive.... can you have some peace in your multisoul and leave the multi mono war at home...??

Some idiot has suggested we do something extremely stupid and dangerous to prove some kind of point. Something that would be dangerous and stupid in ANY sail boat.

Should we all just accept that?

Maybe, when reading these threads try opening both eyes? Or don't read them at all, if they bother you so much....

[DavefromNZ]

A very good article at the beginning and I agree with it all.

With regard to motoring L450 1 eng 7kts, 5.5 ltrs/hr (rudder 3 deg offset), 2 eng 8kts, 11ltrs/hr. I only ever use two engines when bashing into wind or tide.

I find when motor-sailing to windward that there is no difference in performance, i.e. Angle, VMG between engines but using the upwind engine is superior as the thrust offsets the weather helm from the sails so the rudder is centered.

[category4jay]

Thanks for the time and effort put into your post! Very informative.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

FWIW, on my boat, under certain weather conditions, I can improve VMG from 2 kts to 7.5 kts by lowering mizzen and jib, sheeting the main in to centerline and flattening it and run the engine at 1,700 rpm. My STW goes up about 1 knot and the other 3.5 kts improvement come from a much better wind angle.

What is there not to like from that?

What is there not to like? Well, your arithmetic for a start

(You're a knot out somewhere).

[PaulinOz]

(You're a knot out somewhere).

Lets Knot get into this again

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by StuM

What is there not to like? Well, your arithmetic for a start

(You're a knot out somewhere).

Yes :-) I shouldn't have started about STW :-) Let's just say the VMG increase was almost all gained by the better windangle, with only a little effect from greater STW :-)

[poiu]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

I must admit I have experienced that rail to rail rolling and it wasn't fun. Definitely not a strong point for the Sundeer ;-) Took some time but we learned how to keep the bow or stern into the swell at anchor. It works so good that even the cats anchored around us started doing it and we could all enjoy ourselves again :-)

I'm curious to know what you do here? I've tried a stern anchor, with some success and some failure too. I've not tried an anchor riding sail and I don't have a mizzen to play with. I can see they will help sometimes too.

Total thread-drift of course, so Maybe a new thread is best.

[neilpride]

Swell bridle... it work.

[poiu]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Swell bridle... it work.

Thanks. I tried it once, but ended up rubbing the stern line on the top sides. I didn't put the anchor chain connection far enough forward. It would have had to go an unnaturally long way forwards and I lost courage. Maybe I need to persevere.

[smj]

Originally Posted by poiu

Thanks. I tried it once, but ended up rubbing the stern line on the top sides. I didn't put the anchor chain connection far enough forward. It would have had to go an unnaturally long way forwards and I lost courage. Maybe I need to persevere.

It also puts much more stress on the anchor as the wind is not blowing directly on the bow but more on the beam.

[neilpride]

Originally Posted by smj

It also puts much more stress on the anchor as the wind is not blowing directly on the bow but more on the beam.

Usually when the wind is blowing is when your bow start to face the waves, unless you anchor in a tidal área...

[smj]

Originally Posted by neilpride

Usually when the wind is blowing is when your bow start to face the waves, unless you anchor in a tidal área...

Unless the waves are wrapping around a point of land or the swell has nothing to do with the wind direction at the time. Both pretty common occurrences.

[s/v Jedi]

Yes I use an anchor bridle. After surviving 120kts sustained wind at anchor I don't worry about a bit extra load anymore.
Just tie a line to the chain, lead it outboard to a primary winch in the cockpit, put it on the winch in the self tailer, then with the windlass run out enough chain to turn into the swell. Use the cockpit winch for fine tuning.

[Hearts Content]

Wow, that's as balanced as BLM terrorist.