Cruising World Article

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by markpierce

If cats are so wonderful, why are they rarely seen in central California? ... Maybe because they are expensive to purchase and to berth, and their positive values are over-blown?



Surely, that cat is taking a direct course towards me (ninety degrees from the plumb course) out of curiosity despite spoiling his place in the race.

That cat is so far in front he's probably going to stop and have a nap. And still win.

[PaulinOz]

Quote Ann T Cate "Yes, I understand owners love the fly bridge"

I also understand that there are probably a lot more out there that do not like it, hey thats absolutely fine, it would make for a boring time at sundowners, if we all had exactly the same boat with exactly the same lack of issues to not talk about over a wine or three.

Horses for courses, I even have some friends who own mono's.

Last year I got talked into doing a couple of the race weeks up North on a mono and had a ball, it had been years since racing on a mono and had forgotten the feel of a well trimmed boat, pointing high and slicing through the waves. The only down side was took two months for a previously damaged shoulder to recover, that flared up from grinding the main sheet. I did miss my push button winches.

[44'cruisingcat]

We'd all sail the same boats... drag the same anchors... shoot each other with the same guns....

[yeloya]

"On a performance cruising cat with deep daggerboards, windward ability is far better-but usually still a bit shy of a similarly pedigreed cruising monohull."


That's the only part that I don't agree on the article. I've mostly sailed on cats but also with various monos and even raced with monos for a while. Apple to apple (Jeanneau, Benetetau, Bavaria, etc. agaist Lagoon, FP, Leopard or Grand Soleil, X Yacht against Catana, Outremer,etc and for the same water length) the monos will point better, possibly give less a leeway but cats will still be faster VMG. The only exception will be choppy seas that will be more suitable for monos. Cats like the upwind but hates the sea associated with it. The waves on the front beam hits the cat 3-4 times vs. only once the mono; the outer hull, the inside of the other hull, being reflected to the inside of the other beam again. If the bridgedeck clearance is not enough high, this is even worse. Secondly cats doesn't have enough inertia, theyby accelerate fast but they also decelerate very fast when hit by a wave. The monos have more inertia thanks to their heavy keel and yes, they heel but they don't jerk like the cat. I've seen some experienced monohullers who get seasick on cats, that's one of the reason..(the second one being the yawling action which is more accentuated on cats)
Finally, all what I am saying is for cats with fully battened mainsail. It's sad to see that increasingly the cats are coming with main sails. This is not only dangereous (more dangereous for cats than mono as the boat doesn't heel cannot discharge the extra puff) if the sails is jammed, but also reducing the performance of the cat significantly.


Cheers


Yeloya

[daletournier]

It very much depends on which cat and which mono we are talking about. I'm a cat fan but don't want one under 40ft and cats over 45feet cost more than I'm willing to spend.

For me, cats under 40ft don't have the type of room that I want, sure they may have more cubic feet of space than some bigger monos but its a different space, I prefer the more voluminous feel of a modern mono.

Also the motion seems alot different once under 40 feet, hobbie horses more. And speed? Well obviously this depends on the boats, but my experience is that most cats under 40 feet aren't significantly faster if at all when averaged out over long passages ( theres always exceptions).

Also not a fan of sitting behind a wall both at anchor and underway.

Now if we are talking about big cats that I can load up, have so much volume that gives my prefered type of space and are leaning a little more to performance, well no question , I'd have one in a heartbeat.

Money generally is the determing factor, no money consideration and I'm cat shopping today, but that's not reality. For what I paided for my Catalina 470 you just dont get much cat, both living space and performance , I cant see any cat on the market that comes close when bang for buck comes into play. The best I could do with the money I spend on my mono would be something like a Island Spirit 37, which I like but to me isnt as substantial.

So to summarize, I'd love a chris white Atlantic 57 or 48 NOW! But as much as the lagoon 38 or 41 is popular, they're just not for me.



Sent from my vivo Y35 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Lambretta]

Originally Posted by yeloya

"On a performance cruising cat with deep daggerboards, windward ability is far better-but usually still a bit shy of a similarly pedigreed cruising monohull."


Finally, all what I am saying is for cats with fully battened mainsail. It's sad to see that increasingly the cats are coming with main sails. This is not only dangereous (more dangereous for cats than mono as the boat doesn't heel cannot discharge the extra puff) if the sails is jammed, but also reducing the performance of the cat significantly.


Cheers


Yeloya

Hi Yeloya

Thanks for your input you make some good points........ I dont follow the point you are making here about the mainsail on cats ....... can you explain further
Thanks

[Lambretta]

Originally Posted by Lambretta

Hi Yeloya

Thanks for your input you make some good points........ I dont follow the point you are making here about the mainsail on cats ....... can you explain further
Thanks

Sorry let me clarify ....... I am referring to the performance aspect of what you are saying not the safety aspect and dumping the main (which is the point I think you are making)

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by Lambretta

Sorry let me clarify ....... I am referring to the performance aspect of what you are saying not the safety aspect and dumping the main (which is the point I think you are making)

Hahhahhaa.. Apoligizes.. Off course I was refering to furling main sail that in my view are not a good option for cats...

Cheers

Yeloya

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by yeloya

"Apple to apple (Jeanneau, Benetetau, Bavaria, etc. agaist Lagoon, FP, Leopard or Grand Soleil, X Yacht against Catana, Outremer,etc and for the same water length) the monos will point better, possibly give less a leeway but cats will still be faster VMG.

Yeloya

I actually think a daggerboard cruising cat' will have less leeway than a (cruising) mono. The daggerboards can be deeper, better designed for leeway reduction and will be nearly vertical.

[yeloya]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

I actually think a daggerboard cruising cat' will have less leeway than a (cruising) mono. The daggerboards can be deeper, better designed for leeway reduction and will be nearly vertical.

I agree..
Also because the cats with daggerboards do have slimmer hulls and will cut the water better than fat belly monos. Nevertheless, in choppy sea, I tend to believe that this advantage will be somewhat reduced.
On the other hand,it wouldn't be fair to put cruising monos and daggerboard cats on the same category anyway.. Remember, I said, "apple to apple"..

Cheers

Yeloya

[Caribbeachbum]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

... For best fuel economy, cats usually run only one engine at a time and use both engines only when punching into head seas. ...

Overall this is one of the best comparisons I've read, probably due to your having cruised in both types of yachts. My wife and are are shopping for our last boat (III) and we are considering catamarans for the first time, so I thank you for it.

That having been said, I've read elsewhere this business of operating only one engine with a claim of fuel efficiency. I'm curious if people are just doing this one-engine thing as an act of faith, perhaps having heard that it worked for a friend of a friend, or if there is evidence showing that less fuel is burned using one engine for a given distance, given speed, and similar wind and sea conditions.

The one engine is loaded more than if both were running, and thus consuming more fuel than it would be if sharing the load with another engine. Beyond idling (the lower limit), I suspect that using only one engine consumes the same or even slightly more fuel than two if you're going the same speed in the same boat loaded with the same gear and in the same conditions.

[SV DestinyAscen]

One engine motor sailing isn't a hearsay friend of a friend claim. Since forces required to overcome drag isn't linear but closer to exponential, and fuel consumption is also a product of engine compression losses/rotational mass, one engine motor sailing saves fuel vs two engines.

[boatman61]

It is a fact.. using one engine at a time is more fuel efficient.. having done it on a variety of cats I've delivered to increase the range.
Also.. if you switch the other engine on and bring it to the same rev's as the one running you'll only gain a knot.. 1.5 at most.. and twice the fuel consumption

[Andrew Grace]

Originally Posted by Caribbeachbum

Overall this is one of the best comparisons I've read, probably due to your having cruised in both types of yachts. My wife and are are shopping for our last boat (III) and we are considering catamarans for the first time, so I thank you for it.

That having been said, I've read elsewhere this business of operating only one engine with a claim of fuel efficiency. I'm curious if people are just doing this one-engine thing as an act of faith, perhaps having heard that it worked for a friend of a friend, or if there is evidence showing that less fuel is burned using one engine for a given distance, given speed, and similar wind and sea conditions.

The one engine is loaded more than if both were running, and thus consuming more fuel than it would be if sharing the load with another engine. Beyond idling (the lower limit), I suspect that using only one engine consumes the same or even slightly more fuel than two if you're going the same speed in the same boat loaded with the same gear and in the same conditions.

The one engine compares vs 2 is only relevant when comparing the Cat to Cat performance.

i.e: on one engine only our cat will do 5 knots at 3 Litres per hour consumption but when 2 engines are run at the same time the top speed only increases to 7.3 knots which means you only get 2.3 knots of extra speed for burning the additional 3 Litres , so for long haul trips its far better to just run the single engine but have the 2nd available for the extra punch and manoeuvrability for when docking or adverse currents.

[PaulinOz]

Don't forget servicing cost are reduced as well. If you are only using one engine at a time, service costs are almost halved on a yearly basis.