Cruising Trimaran Fans?

[sycpuppy]

Love Trimarans but have no experience with them at all. So when I'm looking at boats I steer clear of them because I wouldn't want to go blindly into a field of boat I don't know about... That being said I probably got all the Corsair, Dragonfly, F-boat demo's and movies I can find on my computer and have probably spent too many hours on the Pedigree Catamarans web site trying too get an idea of what a tristar mixed with a shuttleworth would look like.

[SailFastTri]

Originally Posted by Mike w

What size tri do you feel is ideal? Any long passages? I am also interested in how they handle heavy seas and strong winds? 40-60 knots wind. When do you feel it's time to drop all sails and through out a drogue?

Mike

Mike -- you're going to be ruined for sailing other types of boats. Nothing sails better than a tri.

I have a Dragonfly 1200 and have spent some time on the various Dragonfly models from 30' up. Have owned a DF-920 (starting 2001), DF-1000 in 2005-2008, my current boat since then. Also have sailed on a Corsair 24. Have never been in an open ocean major storm as I generally stay coastal, but have been out in some heavy squalls with gusts to about 70. Anything over 35 is a LOT of wind and above 50 I don't want to carry more than a hanky of sail.

Capsizes happen mostly to racers who push the limits, or cruisers who reef for the average winds. The mantra for safe multihull sailing is "reef for the gusts". If you think maybe it's time to reef, it's already late.

My first post ever on this site was about the multihull "line of death". A tongue-in-cheek exaggeration that has some truth in it if you don't know what you're doing. Read it here and don't ever forget it -- this is great advice (equivalent in safety advice to learning to counter-steer on a motorcycle). http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...tml#post138314 If you own a tri you've got to know this stuff.

With boat speed in the teens you can have a 20-40 knot DIFFERENCE in apparent wind depending on your direction of travel. That's huge, and must be considered in your handling tactics.

Remember that also when carrying a spinnaker -- if you accidentally round-up or stuff a wave, the sudden rise in apparent wind can put you over. Think about that when you're in a slowly-building breeze and stow the kite early unless you have a death wish. (The mono guys are probably reading this and thinking this is a multihull disadvantage, but this is no different than slowing for a curve in your car. Any idiot can take risks and spin out, and that's not a reflection of the car's safety -- it's a reflection on the driver.) BTW -- downwind there is a lot less drama in the motion of a multihull than in a mono... Much less rocking and rolling.

When I see a squall line or t-storm approaching I always drop all sail and tie everything down until I know what wind strength we're dealing with. Once the initial wall of cold air passes I might raise sail again, probably double-reefed, until I feel max wind speed is predictable again. Generally we'll motor slowly to windward initially so we can be more comfortable and protected behind the dodger, and keep the bow into the wind waves. After that it's a judgment call.

One other thing -- NO AUTO-INFLATE or fixed foam PFDs. If you ever do flip and come up under the sails or nets, or entangled in lines, it's better to have the option to swim down and out rather than to be trapped by your buoyant vest. I think the safety of auto-inflate is offset by the odds of entrapment vs. the odds of being knocked unconscious as you go overboard.

[Cavalier MK2]

It is good to show some restraint cruising. Our rule of thumb is to make sure the main is reefed according to what we would need up wind in heavy weather then unroll a little extra jib for the down wind run, making sure to roll it up while the boatspeed reduces the wind before heading up. And of course keeping a hand on the sheets never hurts. Same with a cat. Anything over 50 knots you shouldn't plan on going to windward, time to run off etc, unless you're really stuck....if you have to lie ahull remember to pull the board up so you can side slip with the wave strikes.

[Mike w]

Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2

Was that with the Haida Michael? A monohull is a whole different beast downwind than a cat or tri. Those extra hulls really take away the drama. You really only need to do something if you start boneyarding the backs of waves on a multihull. Nothing unsafe about the tried and true searunner approach. Of course those coasties did pay for the series drogue testing. They also found durability issues with parachutes which make me think they are better for stopping to get rest. Having options is always good, so far we havn't needed them, boats are all different about how to handle them, practicing before it gets bad always makes sense. This time last year we were getting 40 knot squalls on the nose from having to stick to time lines, Mother nature has a way of not caring about man made schedules!

Ya here a 40 knot squall is not too much drama, it's the 60 knot ones I am worried about.

[Mike w]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

Ive sailed Tris In real bad weather a couple of times, once in excess of 80mph off the west coast of wash and Org and Cali Down hill all the way with a 250 ft of 2 inch nylon behind the tri on the aft cleat on each ama, and small bucket in the middle, and an old oil bag I found aboard, a storm sail bout the size of a hanky LOL slowed the boat down and still had steerage, very comfortable ! tris are good in bad weather you just have to think a little differently, I don't know about cats but I think that the same type of things would work with them also but dont really know about that !

I was just thinking about a storm jib as well. Someone mentioned having one rigged between the Mast and the jib to better balance the boat. Made sense I thought but of course need to try and see how it works. Also I was wondering what size of a storm jib. Just 2 days ago I was out on the islands and it was blowing so hard I could hardly stand. I was wondering what I would do. Waves were reasonably sized so I would want to make my way to a marina or anchor spot on the leeward side of the island. I like the idea of moving forward slowly and using the sea anchor as a last resort and for situations far away from land.

What are your thoughts?

[Mike w]

Wouldn't a regular lifejacket be the same as a NO AUTO-INFLATE in the water? I owned a fully loaded cat but sold it as it was not what I wanted. I love keeping it simple and enjoy sailing. A 37' tri is more than enough space for me and the reason why I want a boat is to explore. I feel with a tri exploring would be really cool. If I wanted all the luxuries I would stay home. The tri will allow me to get into to those atolls and shallow rivers and pull up close to the beach. 50cm draft is a huge plus I feel. Hope to get back to basics on the tri.

[Cavalier MK2]

Originally Posted by Mike w

Ya here a 40 knot squall is not too much drama, it's the 60 knot ones I am worried about.

Ya there is a bit more drama in narrow channel with a 5 knot current.....add in the venturi effect for more excitement and it is easy to see why the open sea is easier to cope with.

Many people with roller furling jibs add a removable staysail as you are describing. Ours uses a highfield type lever and works great. Another approach is to have a spectra luff staysail with a continuous line furler. In either case the attachment to the deck and mast needs to be strong and will most likely take reinforcing. Adding one was one of the first modifications we did and it works great.

[Cavalier MK2]

For size I'd suggest a small-normal size with reef points to take a page from the Pardey's. that way you can use it in more conditions without carrying extra gear. We also use it reaching with the jib or chute. 8-10oz. cloth triple stitched will handle anything.

[barnakiel]

I do not have one. But I do want one!

;-)

Seen Rayon Vert ... got me dreaming.

Also, some Newick's toys (e.g. the NAGA) ...

dreamin, dreamin ;-)

b.

[Mike w]

Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2

For size I'd suggest a small-normal size with reef points to take a page from the Pardey's. that way you can use it in more conditions without carrying extra gear. We also use it reaching with the jib or chute. 8-10oz. cloth triple stitched will handle anything.

A storm jib with reefs? So on the roller furler? Never seen a storm jib before with a reef setup.

Where can you buy?

Mike

[Cavalier MK2]

No Mike, it is hanked onto a removable stay tensioned with a highfield lever making reef points possible. The top of the stay remains attached to the mast while the lower end can be unhooked. We stow the stay next to a side stay when not using or at the base of the mast if leaving the bagged staysail hooked on and ready to go. If you have the budget for a Corsair and like gadgets a Staysail with a spectra luff on a line furler is a good way to go, you can then use the line furler for other sails such as code 0s etc...The advantage of the removable stay is extra mast support even when not flying any sails. Any good sailmaker can make or modify a sail for your boat if you don't roll your own. For a budget boat try to buy used. Often "storm jibs" get almost no use at all and can be found in a staysail size range easily and are easy to adapt. I picked up one with some rust stains from stowage with no other wear for almost nothing because of the cosmetics. In reality unless you size the sail for other uses with any luck yours won't get used either, I don't like dead weight so I made mine multi purpose. Many people fly just a scrap of their main jib, the hazard there is if the furling line gets away from you in a blow. Others use a storm jib with a sock type luff to go over the furler, this insures the sail doesn't unroll but it doesn't move the area back from the bows like a staysail.

[bobconnie]

The Tri I was on at the time I mentioned was 41 ftr cutter rigged and the storm jib was flown from the inner stay, this was in 1964, and roller furling was not used as much as today !Ive never cared for tris rigged as ketchs, I prefer a cutter rig but thats a personal thing! different strokes and such, but tris will go down hill easy in a big bunch of wind if your rigged and ready for it !! Just my 2 cents

[Cavalier MK2]

I actually looked up the Corsair 37 and am surprised they are marketing it as a blue water cruiser as it seems to be more of a sport boat. What I was looking at was the sail plan, it might sail under main alone in a blow but it needs a third reef, preferably a really deep one just under the sail insignia. A staysail should attach at the mast where the upper spreaders are, you'd want running backstays etc...on deck it would have to attach forward of the deck hatch and here your in luck. The forward bunk is not a sea berth so running a removable chainplate/cable from the keel through the bunk up to the underside of the deck fitting will handle the reinforcing. You can see this done on blue water tris like Newicks. For cruising not having at least some wing costs you those dedicated midship bunks that are great at sea and keep the off watch off the settee A non folding version with this sort of cabin extension would make more sense on a "blue water cruiser" plus it would reduce the windward ama spray. The design seems more set up for fast hops rather than long passages but with the right preparation it could be set up for fast spartan cruising.

[Mike w]

Originally Posted by Cavalier MK2

I actually looked up the Corsair 37 and am surprised they are marketing it as a blue water cruiser as it seems to be more of a sport boat. What I was looking at was the sail plan, it might sail under main alone in a blow but it needs a third reef, preferably a really deep one just under the sail insignia. A staysail should attach at the mast where the upper spreaders are, you'd want running backstays etc...on deck it would have to attach forward of the deck hatch and here your in luck. The forward bunk is not a sea berth so running a removable chainplate/cable from the keel through the bunk up to the underside of the deck fitting will handle the reinforcing. You can see this done on blue water tris like Newicks. For cruising not having at least some wing costs you those dedicated midship bunks that are great at sea and keep the off watch off the settee A non folding version with this sort of cabin extension would make more sense on a "blue water cruiser" plus it would reduce the windward ama spray. The design seems more set up for fast hops rather than long passages but with the right preparation it could be set up for fast spartan cruising.

This setup seems good. I'll see if it can be done.

Yes a spartan cruiser. I know 2 people who live off them but put a lot of extras in which I am doing as well. I'll also have a fully enclosed bimini made as well to combat the spray when not welcomed My big concern is the bad weather, but saying that this boat can reach speeds of over 20 knots and averages 11 knots so 265 nm in 24 h can get out of the worse providing the weather report was correct I'll probably only be 24h away from land at any given time for the most part. Still want to be prepared.

[Cavalier MK2]

Here is the removable stay support on a 45' Newick. A partial bulkhead could be put in under the bunk to help distribute the load.