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Old 18-02-2008, 11:49   #1
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Cruising Cat vs. Cruising Mono Performance

Uh oh... time for more controversy!

Got done with my sea trial on the new cat today. All went well. In fact, the cat did nearly as well to weather as an average cruising mono. Yup... sailed just fine. We did have heavy winds, but she pointed right up, much to my suprise.

So, I have to say that in decent winds (10-15kts), comparing a crusing cat with a cruising mono (with full keel or modified fin), they're about the same.

Of course, a fin keel would make a huge difference, but comparing these apples and oranges from the middle performance range, they're just about equal.

A very surprising result, based on what I read here.

The cats aren't so bad to windward after all. Just depends on the type of mono you are comparing them to.
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Old 18-02-2008, 12:06   #2
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Here we go...break out the heavy weapons. It's show time!

In a computer forum that I am a member of, we have the same thing. It's either AMD vs Intel or Nvidia vs ATI. It always ends the same with a moderator locking the thread.

Sullivan...its nice the see the old stereotypes of catamarans are falling by the wayside with modern designs.

Just going in and out of various marinas in the SF Bay Area to pick up customers, I have noticed a LOT more modern catamarans sitting at their end-ties from just 10 years ago.
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Old 18-02-2008, 12:47   #3
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Even monohullers agree that some cruising cats go to windward just fine:
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Old 18-02-2008, 13:08   #4
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cat to mono comparison

I found that Charles Kantor did a very good job of addressing / debunking the comparisons in his book Cruising in Catamarans. He also observed that most cats would go to windward at least as well or better than most of the full keeled monohulls.
Also keep in mind that most cruisers live by the adage that " gentlemen don't sail to windward".
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Old 18-02-2008, 14:29   #5
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Originally Posted by ireaney View Post
Oh no - wait for the fireworks, you have upset the mono hull boys now especially JOLI and probably CATTY
VMG is VMG. Put it on a race course and see what happens but as I have said here more then once this is a cruising forum and the rules are not the same. Sorry no fireworks

Gunboat 48, nice boat Ireany! Congrats.
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Old 19-02-2008, 08:09   #6
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Sean and Joli are actually both right.

Just as Sean mentioned, my cat points to 30 degrees apparent before pinching. While the wind is whipping thru your hair and all seems wonderful with the world, unfortunately, there are other considerations.

First off, as cats are slightly faster, apparent wind moves further forward on a cat, so even though pointing at 30 degrees apparent seems unassailable, in fact we would actually be pointing lower than a mono when comparing courses to true wind direction.

The second consideration is leeway. I know this is dependent on hull design, but I have to believe that cats are slipping sideways a lot more than a full keel mono.

All in all I'm very satisfied with windward performance, but I'm not sure it's fair to say that cats can outpoint a mono. If I steer a couple of points lower, keep my speed up and even with another tack thrown in, I think I can compare favorably to Joli's VMG scenario (or I should say that I know Ireany's boat would).

Of course, OTOH, I wouldn't know what a race course looks like!!
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Old 19-02-2008, 08:16   #7
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No controversy - to compare two different boats on speed you have to race between two or more points.

There are fast and slow cats and fast and slow mono's.

There are boats you wanna spend 30 days on and there are boats you can't wait to get off after 30 hours.
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Old 19-02-2008, 08:49   #8
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No controversy - to compare two different boats on speed you have to race between two or more points.

There are fast and slow cats and fast and slow mono's.

There are boats you wanna spend 30 days on and there are boats you can't wait to get off after 30 hours.
Yup... this is really it. What I noticed is that the cruising cat I was sailing performed about the same as a full keel (Vagabond type) mono. While not stellar to windward, it's was "good enough for me."
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Old 19-02-2008, 20:20   #9
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SSulivan, I aggree with your observation. After years of blue water cruising we finally got the urge to join in the local yacht clubs mixed multi/mono weekend races. The results certainly debunck a few of the multihulls are always faster myths.

We certainly didn't choose our cruising cat based on speed alone. Whilst I would consider it a performance cruiser (having come from a racing background), for our style of cruising, the cat has many other highly desireable attributes. Any one selecting a cruising multi on speed alone will be sorely dissapointed.

Check out the "speed around a course" thread on the "boat design forum".

Comparing the speed of an orma tri and a hartley floating footpath proves nothing, but a schioning to a joe adams performance cruiser is a different story.
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Old 19-02-2008, 20:29   #10
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I'm partial to mono hulls for the same reason I like flooded batteries: they've been around forever, everything works with them, and they're cheaper.
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Old 19-02-2008, 21:51   #11
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I tend to agree about the flooded batteries, but sailing monohulls, as such, have been around for less than 300 years? Multihulls have been around for over 3000 years.

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Old 19-02-2008, 21:55   #12
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Sully...NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! You've been drugged! Now repeat after me:-
There's no hull like a monohull
There's no hull like a monohull
There's no hull like a monohull...

Now take Toto and sail back to Kansas
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Old 20-02-2008, 01:48   #13
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Quote:
but sailing monohulls, as such, have been around for less than 300 years
What about Noah's Ark? The first boat ever built and she's mono. Maybe it didn't have a Sail, but it didn't have an engine either, just relying on tide a wind to move.
Of course, ya just gotta have faith it existed :-)
But then there were the Vikings. What about the ships some dude made mirrors to try and burn them to the water line. Those examples are far older than 300yrs.
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Old 20-02-2008, 01:49   #14
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Originally Posted by catty View Post
SSulivan, I aggree with your observation. After years of blue water cruising we finally got the urge to join in the local yacht clubs mixed multi/mono weekend races. The results certainly debunck a few of the multihulls are always faster myths.

We certainly didn't choose our cruising cat based on speed alone. Whilst I would consider it a performance cruiser (having come from a racing background), for our style of cruising, the cat has many other highly desireable attributes. Any one selecting a cruising multi on speed alone will be sorely dissapointed.

Check out the "speed around a course" thread on the "boat design forum".

Comparing the speed of an orma tri and a hartley floating footpath proves nothing, but a schioning to a joe adams performance cruiser is a different story.

What kind of performance cruising cat do you have catty?
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Old 20-02-2008, 02:39   #15
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What about Noah's Ark? The first boat ever built and she's mono. Maybe it didn't have a Sail, but it didn't have an engine either, just relying on tide a wind to move.
Of course, ya just gotta have faith it existed :-)
.
So are you implying that god favored monohulls when he told Noah to build that ark? God must have been concerned that Noah would flip over or pitch poll in one of those twin hulled contraptions with all those animals on board. The animals would not have liked the slamming of the bridgedeck either. ALso, there were no containers floating around in the oceans back then so there was very little chance that Noah would have hit one and sank to the bottom in that lead-laden mono.

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