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Old 22-02-2008, 14:13   #61
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Sean, forgive me for suggesting this, but don't you think it's going to take a bit of saling to find her sweet spot? These heavy cats are underpowered by design and very sensitive to sail trim. You'll also see large differences in performance with different outhaul and halyard tensions. The traveler position alone can make a huge difference. In addition. it took me a year to find the sweetspot in the standing rigging.

With a little sailing time and experimenting, you'll be pleasantly surprised what these boats are capable of.
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Old 22-02-2008, 14:15   #62
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Cool. Beaching the boat is something I'm really looking forward to being able to do. Just make sure where you do it won't become a lee shore while the tide's out. Some friends with a Prout have a very funny story they tell about this happening to them. It's funny now, it sure wasn't funny for them at the time!
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Old 22-02-2008, 14:19   #63
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Originally Posted by rickm505 View Post
Sean, forgive me for suggesting this, but don't you think it's going to take a bit of saling to find her sweet spot? These heavy cats are underpowered by design and very sensitive to sail trim. You'll also see large differences in performance with different outhaul and halyard tensions. The traveler position alone can make a huge difference. In addition. it took me a year to find the sweetspot in the standing rigging.

With a little sailing time and experimenting, you'll be pleasantly surprised what these boats are capable of.

Definitely, Rick. I certainly haven't found the most optimal tuning based on a single day sailing the boat.

I was just so amazed that boat (without even finding those sweet spots) did as well as it did on all the various points of sail. I do look forward to wringing even more speed out, if I can, but then... I'm just a lazy cruiser...
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Old 22-02-2008, 14:26   #64
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I do look forward to wringing even more speed out, if I can, but then... I'm just a lazy cruiser...
Ahhhh..... but you have experienced crew available to you .
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Old 22-02-2008, 15:16   #65
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WHAT BOAT DOES CATTY HAVE??


OR IS IT ONE THAT HE PLAYS WITH IN HIS BATH
His prior posts don't mention a boat, but imply knowledge of catamaran sailing. Perhaps we have a Hobie 16 sailing expert?
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Old 22-02-2008, 15:25   #66
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This is how I see it. If a loaded down cat is equal to a bit longer monohull in her sailing ability. Then the icing on the cake is beaching the cat, finding thin water to anchor, and that blessed stability while at anchor. NOT TO MENTION the room.....lolololol
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Old 22-02-2008, 15:51   #67
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Joli, your dead right, real world comparisons are the best indicator.

Regarding your earlier post of the cruising mono/ muti rule infringement ,
I would be more inclined to think the multi guy was just a rude ignorant tosser, rather than it being a mono /multi thing.
When we first sold our mono and built a multi many years ago most yachties were friendly to each other regardless of their boat type. These days with so many people new to sailing ,choosing multis , and bringing there suburban attitudes, and ignorance with them its no wonder the divide is getting wider. With boat builders using slogans like "if its not a cat its a dog" and yacht club bar talk always repeating heresay and not fact about multihull sailing characteristics its no wonder.
What multi did you build?
As for people new to sailing choosing multi's - I'm sure many people new to sailing buy mono's too. And WTF is a "suburban attitude"?

I must agree that the slogan used by Multihaven is poor. Especially in light of their boat! There wouldn't be many monohulls I would reject in favour of a Multihaven!

I don't hang around in yacht club bars, what do they say about multihulls there? Judging from Joli's comments, it wouldn't be very complimentary I would guess. And mostly as you say, heresay and not fact.
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Old 22-02-2008, 15:53   #68
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His prior posts don't mention a boat, but imply knowledge of catamaran sailing. Perhaps we have a Hobie 16 sailing expert?

He says he built one. See above.
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Old 22-02-2008, 16:38   #69
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Mmmmmm,
44cc it will be interesting to see your posts in ten years time after you gain some experience with your new boat, maybe after a few mixed fleet social races and a few years of cruising under your belt.

I have heard the average duration for boat ownership in australia is something like 18 months . Possibly due to people observing the lovely tranquill pictures in cruising magazines and thinking this is the norm. Theres a lot of ugly stuff to put up with between these moments, after all sailing is said to be one of the most expensive and uncomfortable ways of travelling third class . It seems to be the ones with really short memory retention that last.

I think we should all remember that were loitering in cyberspace because were basically sad bastards who would prefer to be out sailing but were not.
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Old 22-02-2008, 17:14   #70
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Hi all I'm one of those happy B*stards thats been sailing cats since age 11, now 43 & enjoy sailing monos as much too esp dinghys, you on the money Catty on the seductive brochure-article thing- some just aint suited to reallity but cats are great & some sail well but passage style races & cruising are their go- for around the bouys in harbour racing sub 30' monos rule in my opinion esp for start line shenanigans & gunnel to gunnel competition. Bridgdeck cats make great lifestyle cruising boats with a nice back verandah & lovely lounge room with a view & some do perform quite well but windage is an issue. All the best from Jeff
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Old 22-02-2008, 17:41   #71
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Mmmmmm,
44cc it will be interesting to see your posts in ten years time after you gain some experience with your new boat, maybe after a few mixed fleet social races and a few years of cruising under your belt.

I have heard the average duration for boat ownership in australia is something like 18 months . Possibly due to people observing the lovely tranquill pictures in cruising magazines and thinking this is the norm. Theres a lot of ugly stuff to put up with between these moments, after all sailing is said to be one of the most expensive and uncomfortable ways of travelling third class . It seems to be the ones with really short memory retention that last.

I think we should all remember that were loitering in cyberspace because were basically sad bastards who would prefer to be out sailing but were not.
I've owned a monohull since 2000, (Roberts 40 in steel) and done a couple of mixed fleet cruiser races, AND watched some cruising cats dissapear into the distance, and some that didn't.

But speed as such isn't the reason I'm building a cat. Certainly not speed around some bouys. It's the ability to still sail at reasonable speed in light wind - when I would be forced to motor in the old boat. It's the lack of rolling at anchor, where I would be forced to move in the middle of the night in the old boat. The ability to anchor in shallow or even drying areas. The extra space. The deck area......

BTW what kind of boat did you build?
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Old 22-02-2008, 19:12   #72
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Cruising World Magazine did a race off about a year ago between a 44' cat and 44' mono hull. They placed a mark well to windward and guess what, the cat beat the mono every time. The cat could not point as high but its speed was great enough that it still got there first. We sail to weather at 35-40 degrees and 10 knots SOG in 20 knots of wind. I have not found a cruising mono that comes anywhere near that.
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Old 22-02-2008, 22:25   #73
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Sounds like a reasonable comparison Mustang Sally, a couple of years ago I was racing on an old(76?) IOR style 34 footer in a mixed fleet that ranged from Endeavour 26" to a volvo 60, there was a multi div too that started 5 or 10 mitutes later usually a hot 9.5 meter tri sailed well & a 43" Crowther cat maybe not sailed so well with large tankage etc, the races were on East coast Aus and usualy 10-15 NM & return sometimes shorter & occassionally longer. The tri would usually pass us kinda footing along nicely 100-150 meters to leeward about 10- 15 minutes after our start & sail & tack wide with no regard for current & finish with or in front of the Volvo 60, the cruising cats results were much more variable, some times in front of us & sometimes behind depending on conditions encountered, in the 34 IOR it pointed high & well - off the wind was tough to push hard, we'd have to coast hug into the prevailing current & go a little wider with it to do alright- in regards to that its much higher risk to coast hug if something goes wrong- lack of sea room & time so the tri sailed safer & so did the cat, the boats we were racing though(within the fleet) were really monos of similar dimension & their tactics similar although we'd often joke about bring our oyster knives for a feed of the rocks!(if the skipper got tooo close) Out of a mixed fleet with that much varience in vessel style & how they were sailed to do ok many conclusions could be reached on the ideal vessel but if every one had fun & came home safe all are good. Regards from Jeff.
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Old 23-02-2008, 00:17   #74
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Welcome over to the dark side Sean.

While I doubt she'll win any races, she'll be way up there in the non-beer spilling comfort levels.

Have fun

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Old 23-02-2008, 15:19   #75
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Seems my post was deletet in its ENTIRETY, not just the "apparently" offending section.

Try again.

For catty who feel's mono beating multi's can't be cruised by families yet still maintain high performence

Quote:
So if these optomized vessels with full racing crews can only average 10 knots what chance have we with a crew consisting of mum dad and the little kiddies got of averaging more than 6 or so for a cruising season?
A very good chance.

What about these

http://www.f-boat.com/pages/news/comparison.html


Quote:
In the Cowes to St Malo race, the F-9AX TRIOHE (31 footer with 3 crew and second over the line) led home the first Volvo 60 (3rd) by 38 minutes. The Farr 45 BOUNDER (one design race boat with 11 crew) was the only boat able to beat TRIOHE to St Malo, and then only by 32 minutes in a mainly upwind race of 165 miles in 30 knots of wind plus. Also left behind by the small trimaran in this rough windward race were a Grand Soleil 45, J-160 (53 footer), Tayana 52, X43, and five J-109s (35 footers), the first of which was over three hours behind. Who was it that said multihulls could not go to weather?


And Fred in Ostac Triumph

Hardly an optimized vessel and can cruise very fast single handed


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A notable example in the past was in the 1992 Brisbane to Gladstone ocean race in Australia, where the 67' monohull racer BOBSLED, a million dollar outright racing machine, was able to break the monohull record by an impressive hour and a half. This was given headline treatment, but sailing under the Press radar was the Farrier F-31 TRIUMPH, a standard family orientated trailer sailer costing a fraction as much, which had started 15 minutes later, and then caught and passed BOBSLED, finishing one hour and fifteen minutes ahead! A true stealth boat.

That a relatively small and much less expensive trailerable racer/cruiser can beat a much larger mono racer in many conditions is not unusual for F-boats, this having been a frequent occurrence over many years. It should also be noted that all Farrier F-boats are designed to be roomy, family friendly, cruising boats first, the performance just coming as a no cost extra. Better still, they do not need a football team on board to sail well!
And then put on a trailer and taken back home at 90Kph

I think you have just sailed on poor performing multi's (if at all)

Like others here I would like to know what your boat is/was as well.

Dave
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