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Old 20-02-2008, 02:51   #16
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I am sure both Noah and God were concerned with “bale capacity” to house and feed all those procreating animals, so definitely, defiantly…. a…monohull!
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Old 20-02-2008, 09:09   #17
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Cook the great explorer was really surprised by what a multihull can do. I think he was sailing into the Hawaiian islands when a large multihull came over the horizon doing double his speed.
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Old 20-02-2008, 09:16   #18
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Oh no... and the thread degenerates... ha ha

Well, I couldn't expect any less. It's a difficult debate and one without an answer, other than your own personal choice.

However, it did surprise me to find that the cat was basically the same as a crusing mono in performace, when I accounted for higher downwind speeds (per given LWL) and lower, but acceptable (to me) upwind speeds.

As others pointed out, I think I'll miss the motion and grace of monos under sail, but that's ok, because that rolling motion at anchor wasn't so fun anyway.
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Old 20-02-2008, 09:58   #19
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SSulivan, I aggree with your observation. After years of blue water cruising we finally got the urge to join in the local yacht clubs mixed multi/mono weekend races. The results certainly debunck a few of the multihulls are always faster myths.

We certainly didn't choose our cruising cat based on speed alone. Whilst I would consider it a performance cruiser (having come from a racing background), for our style of cruising, the cat has many other highly desireable attributes. Any one selecting a cruising multi on speed alone will be sorely dissapointed.

Check out the "speed around a course" thread on the "boat design forum".

Comparing the speed of an orma tri and a hartley floating footpath proves nothing, but a schioning to a joe adams performance cruiser is a different story.
Hello Catty, I was wondering about your background.

Short story. Last fall we were racing a series in a mixed fleet. I was crewing on a friends 30 foot mono and we were working our way upwind in ~15 to 18 ap. There was a F Boat 200 yards behind and 100 yard to weather, couple minutes later he was 100 yards behind and 50 yards to weather, couple minutes later we were beam to beam with 5 feet of separation. Here's the pickle, since we are higher he essentially stops, he can't foot since were too close and now he is sliding down into us.

Remember, we have rights, the F boat could have tacked away prior to converging, he could have ducked us and sailed through our lee but he did neither and fouled us. The guy that owned the boat had two options: 1) Give him a little tap and then get tangled. 2) Crack sheets and let him by. The owner opted to crack off and let him go.

Now here is what burns me, the guy driving the F did not bother to say oops, sorry about that. We all screw up on the race course, I certainly do, but he did not bother to approach the owner after the race and apologize for fouling him, didn't offer to buy him a beer. He just went on his merry way with no regard for the rules, almost as if we weren't there. His attitude seemed disdainful.

Maybe this is what partially fuels the multi mono divide?
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Old 20-02-2008, 11:54   #20
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I'm pretty sure the first boats, ever, were dug out canoes and the such. Seems rather reasonable to imagine that you'd need one hull to work before you tried using two.
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Old 20-02-2008, 12:06   #21
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I'm pretty sure the first boats, ever, were dug out canoes and the such. Seems rather reasonable to imagine that you'd need one hull to work before you tried using two.
Your post got me thinking...

I'm going to venture to guess the first boats were logs tied togther. Neither cat nor mono.
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Old 20-02-2008, 12:09   #22
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In a rough comparising it is all abouth weigth versus sail area and it does not make a big difference if it is a monohull or catamaran
given 10000 kilo,s of weigth and 100 squire meters of sail area the monohull will be slightly better pointing and the cat with identical weigth and sail area will be slightly better reaching this has all to do with windage.
The advantage of a cat is that we need no ballast .
very little can be done to take ballast away on a monohull but with a cat a lot can be done to save weigth.
Greetings
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Old 20-02-2008, 12:19   #23
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Your post got me thinking...

I'm going to venture to guess the first boats were logs tied togther. Neither cat nor mono.
Not true! That's still a single hull, just made of multiple parts fastened together!

If they took the logs, shaped the square, and glued them together, it would very much be "one hull". So change out the glue for rope, and knock the bark off instead of squaring them... one hull!
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Old 20-02-2008, 12:56   #24
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Not true! That's still a single hull, just made of multiple parts fastened together!

If they took the logs, shaped the square, and glued them together, it would very much be "one hull". So change out the glue for rope, and knock the bark off instead of squaring them... one hull!
Hmmm.... isn't that debatable? Isn't it a multi and I mean MULTI hull?

Lots and lots of little hulls, high initial stability and poor ultimate stability, just like a multi.

Of course, I can't actually have an argument with a 30 yr old programmer type I like on here (when I'm a 36 yr old programmer type too). It'll have to be a nice emotionless debate a la Java vs .net or something...
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Old 20-02-2008, 21:47   #25
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Remember, we have rights, the F boat could have tacked away prior to converging, he could have ducked us and sailed through our lee but he did neither and fouled us. The guy that owned the boat had two options: 1) Give him a little tap and then get tangled. 2) Crack sheets and let him by. The owner opted to crack off and let him go.

<snip>

Maybe this is what partially fuels the multi mono divide?

I don't think this is a mono-multi problem. It's a racing problem ;-)

If I was the tactician on the mono I would be yelling, screaming, swearing and throwing beer cans at the other boat. Intimidation is part of the Ts job.

Some guys I race with would have let the collision happen and then taken care of business at the protest hearing.

However this thread is about "cruising" monos and multis so I'll go back to sleep now...
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Old 20-02-2008, 23:36   #26
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Hello Catty, I was wondering about your background.

Short story. Last fall we were racing a series in a mixed fleet. I was crewing on a friends 30 foot mono and we were working our way upwind in ~15 to 18 ap. There was a F Boat 200 yards behind and 100 yard to weather, couple minutes later he was 100 yards behind and 50 yards to weather, couple minutes later we were beam to beam with 5 feet of separation. Here's the pickle, since we are higher he essentially stops, he can't foot since were too close and now he is sliding down into us.

Remember, we have rights, the F boat could have tacked away prior to converging, he could have ducked us and sailed through our lee but he did neither and fouled us. The guy that owned the boat had two options: 1) Give him a little tap and then get tangled. 2) Crack sheets and let him by. The owner opted to crack off and let him go.

Now here is what burns me, the guy driving the F did not bother to say oops, sorry about that. We all screw up on the race course, I certainly do, but he did not bother to approach the owner after the race and apologize for fouling him, didn't offer to buy him a beer. He just went on his merry way with no regard for the rules, almost as if we weren't there. His attitude seemed disdainful.

Maybe this is what partially fuels the multi mono divide?
Do you actually think that the same guy in a monohull would suddenly have better manners? That's like saying everybody who drives a Ford/Chev/Volvo (insert brand according to taste) is a moron. It's simply not true.

Another point - if the guy who passed you had been sailing a monohull, and had acted in exactly the same way, would it have been equally memorable? Have you never seen a monohull racer who either didn't fully understand the rules, or just plain ignored some of them?
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Old 20-02-2008, 23:40   #27
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Your post got me thinking...

I'm going to venture to guess the first boats were logs tied togther. Neither cat nor mono.

The first "boat" was probably just a fallen tree. Same as the first "bridge" I guess.

But the first ocean going boats were certainly the polynesian catamarans and proa's, which crossed the Pacific Ocean thousands of years ago.
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Old 20-02-2008, 23:47   #28
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I do not think this has anything to do with a mono or multihull , I find pleasant and very unpleasant sailors in both,
If a impolite or not so good brought up sailors switches over from mono to multi or vica versa it will not change the person.
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Old 20-02-2008, 23:56   #29
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I hear multihullers make better lovers and have better manners. Something about doing things straight up instead of healing over...

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Old 21-02-2008, 04:13   #30
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I hear multihullers make better lovers and have better manners. Something about doing things straight up instead of healing over...

Keegan
Yes I agree, MH's can only do things straight up and perhaps you should consider that most women prefer a guy who will stay focused on one hull instead of flirting around!
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