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17-07-2017, 13:32
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 7
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Cruising Cat Spinnakers
Hi,
We are close to taking delivery of a Fountain Pajot 47, cruising cat, and I would really appreciate the advise of more experienced cat sailors on Spinnakers. We will be a cruising couple, and therefore slightly short handed, hoping for reasonable performance, on what is a cruising cat. We are planning to head across the Atlantic and then explore the world.
It seems asymmetric spinnakers are more popular, but I have read some very credible blogs on the advantage of a symmetrical spinnaker.
I would very much appreciate any advise on spinnakers.
Cheers
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17-07-2017, 14:41
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Lake Macquarie NSW
Boat: Chamberlin 11.6 catamaran
Posts: 867
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
Gday Andrew
I haven't crossed an ocean but have done a done a few years cruising the east coast of Australia on multis. My clear advice is NOT to buy an assymetric.
I have spent years sailing assymetric style racing boats and they have a very high power to weight ratio. This allows them to bring the apparent wind forward and sail deep angles downwind. Also sailing with an assy when racing involves many course changes as you need to ensure that your apparent wind angle stays well forward - at 90 degrees usually when sailing deep. You can over trim a kite to handle the changes in wind direction but this is slow.
After 5 seasons of sailing with an assy, I ditched ours and went for a symmetrical and a reacher (Code 0) on a furler. The reacher is a great bit of kit and will allow you to handle a wide variety of angles very easily. I like sailing with the symmetrical deep downwind. A used symmetrical can be picked up cheaply from a racing boat. Get 1.5 oz material so that it can handle gusts.
Reacher on furler first, then symmetrical or even an assy for deep running in trades.
cheers
Phil
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20-07-2017, 16:07
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
If you can afford both, a screecher and symmetrical spinnaker is the best combination.
If you can't, an assymetric spinnaker is a workable compromise, as long as it's set up so the tack can be moved to the bows.
It takes some experimentation, but we've had our assymetric work nicely at angles from DDW to around 60' apparent. (Which was about 135' true).
You do have to be very aware of apparent wind strength when reaching though, loads increase rapidly.
__________________
"You CANNOT be serious!"
John McEnroe
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20-07-2017, 17:06
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Wherever we are
Boat: FP Lavezzi 40 cataran
Posts: 97
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
If you are crossing oceans, let me recommend
symmetrical spinnaker with an ATN sock. You will be happy sailing deep in the trades and the sock makes sail handling easy and safe, even single handed.
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20-07-2017, 20:25
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Boat: Harbor 20, Seawind 1370 (2024)
Posts: 320
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrew520675
I would very much appreciate any advise on spinnakers.
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Another option: Double Headsail Rig. Dave from s/v Exit Only is on the forum, I'm sure he'd answer your questions. Easy to deploy, easy to shorten sail, what's not to like.
Exit Only - Double Headsail
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20-07-2017, 23:00
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 1,110
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
I actually do all this stuff. If the bucks are limited I'd suggest the symmetrical and sock for off wind bangs for the buck. The double headstay with the removable inner is a versatile thing in that it can handle your storm jib for a better shape than that furler or as a spinnaker staysail. There it will give you an early indication of gibe. Naturally with this set up your genoa should be on the furler.
If you can spring for the additional furler the reacher comes into play but
I'd do the others first as they cover the best and worst first if that makes sense.
For sure go for the 1.5 oz on the chute for a cruiser.
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21-07-2017, 00:45
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Worcester U.K.
Boat: Privilege 435 Now Sold
Posts: 1,060
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
I've circumnavigated as one half of a cruising couple and I'm with Mark424 on this, double headsail. Easy to roll away at a moments notice and no need to leave the cockpit under normal circumstances. We did it without using a pole but if I had my time again I'd have one pole as shown in the photo of Exit Only. Would help stop the windward sail from collapsing once you get more than 30-40 degrees away from dead downwind.
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21-07-2017, 04:48
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Western Caribbean
Boat: 38/41 Fountains pajot
Posts: 3,060
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
Quote:
Originally Posted by sv Grateful
If you are crossing oceans, let me recommend
symmetrical spinnaker with an ATN sock. You will be happy sailing deep in the trades and the sock makes sail handling easy and safe, even single handed.
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Agree with this, we love our symmetrical with a good snuffer/ sock. Easy to set it and run from ddw up to 110.
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21-07-2017, 05:48
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,479
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
Symetricals are easy to fly on a cat. Due to wide beam, no pole is necessary, so rigging is simplified. Not much more complicated than running an asym on a mono.
A Code Zero on a furler would be a bit more convenient, but a spendy addition.
Ghosting thru the anchorage in light air under spinnaker...
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21-07-2017, 09:33
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pacific NW
Boat: Hedley Nicol Vagabond MK2, 37'
Posts: 1,110
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
Just looked at that link, I don't furl the main and use the staysail like that because I have a conventionally rigged mast so no offwind main worries. No furler on my staysail stay as it is usually unhooked so there is no interference tacking the genoa. With the right staysail it is a nice set up with the genoa barber hauled out a bit for close reaching. My jib furler does have an extra slot in the foil for a double genoa set up but I haven't needed to use it.
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21-07-2017, 10:24
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#11
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Writing Full-Time Since 2014
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,559
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
I've had screachers, asymmetricals on a sprit, and symmetricals. For a heavy, cruising cat, my preference is asymmetrical, but on an adjustable bridle, not a sprit. I can position it any where from centered to on the windward bow, which allows me to go pretty deep, if the chute is full enough to rotate to windward a bit (160 true). Less to do, hoisting, jibing, and lowering.
If it was a monohull I would say symmetrical.
A sprit is better for really fast cats. A code zero is good if you do not have a masthead genoa.
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21-07-2017, 11:12
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 293
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
What the hell is going on in this thread?!?! It's staying super on-topic and people are giving differing opinions in an informed and respectful manner!!!
Another factor for symmetrical is that it can handle more fluctuations of wind (won't collapse as quick due to the wing and the wing can be a bleed valve for gusts) which can be great for shorthanded sailing. I've heard several sailors say they know they are losing a knot of speed, but they love the "set it and forget it" aspect.
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21-07-2017, 12:57
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: W Carib
Boat: Wildcat 35, Hobie 33
Posts: 13,479
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thalas
What the hell is going on in this thread?!?! It's staying super on-topic and people are giving differing opinions in an informed and respectful manner!!! [emoji2]
Another factor for symmetrical is that it can handle more fluctuations of wind (won't collapse as quick due to the wing and the wing can be a bleed valve for gusts) which can be great for shorthanded sailing. I've heard several sailors say they know they are losing a knot of speed, but they love the "set it and forget it" aspect.
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I heard a rumor that Trump is going to require that all spinnakers be bright orange and made in the USA. [emoji6]
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21-07-2017, 20:21
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#14
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Elvish meaning 'Far-Wanderer'
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Boat - Greece - Me - Michigan
Boat: 56' Fountaine Pajot Marquises
Posts: 3,489
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
Quote:
Originally Posted by belizesailor
I heard a rumor that Trump is going to require that all spinnakers be bright orange and made in the USA. [emoji6]
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Unless he is selling them - then Chinese manufacturing is the only option.
For the ocean crossing I think the Asym would be my choice. But for regular cruising, I'd probably choose a code 0 because upwind is the bane of standard cats. DDW and autopilot is nice, but still I think VMG is better when not sailing this course.
__________________
Our course is set for an uncharted sea
Dante
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22-07-2017, 00:20
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Brisbane after cruising (Atlantic -> Med -> Carib -> Pacific)
Boat: Vancouver 36, Hobie 33, Catana 48, now all with new owners
Posts: 365
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Re: Cruising Cat Spinnakers
The first big sail we added for our Catana 48 was an aysmmetric which we initially flew off the sprit. We then added a code 0. Once we headed off cruising, we used both a lot, but flew the code 0 from the sprit, and the asymmetric from an adjustable bridle (a tack line to each bow). The way we ended up using the asymmetric it could easily have been a symmetric. In fact while we were cruising I thought about getting a smaller heavier symmetric for trade winds downwind, but decided it was more sails than we really could justify! So I would recommend for cruising on a cat with reasonable performance:
- code 0/screacher for light upwind and reaching and stronger offwind
- asymmetric or symmetric flown off an adjustable bridle for offwind or deep downwind (the asymmetric will let you come a bit higher in light wind, the symmetric will set/sit a bit better deep downwind)
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