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Old 14-04-2013, 08:25   #1
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Costs to upgrade Ex-charter

Hi,

Does anyone out there have a lovely spreadsheet already typed up with any costs that they incurred in upgrading an ex-charter cat to a cruiser? Yes, I'm looking for a quick start off platform(cheat)
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Old 15-04-2013, 20:38   #2
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I think that is an awesome question, I am very interested in any answers as well. Further to the op, can anyone comment on the refits done by the Moorings or other charter companies when the cats are sold and leave their charter fleet?
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Old 15-04-2013, 21:15   #3
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Re: Costs to upgrade Ex-charter

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Originally Posted by WingingIt View Post
Hi,

Does anyone out there have a lovely spreadsheet already typed up with any costs that they incurred in upgrading an ex-charter cat to a cruiser? Yes, I'm looking for a quick start off platform(cheat)
We have been updating our ex charter Lagoon 380 since buying her 18 months ago. The amount of costs would differ from boat to boat depending on the condition of the boat & how much you want to do to get it "cruise" ready. Your intended "cruise" (coastal or whatever) would make a big difference to how much you want/need to do.

No I don't have a spreadsheet but here is a brief summary of what we have done so far (in Au$):
New mainsail, genoa, stackpack, bimini cover - $10,800
Installed/replaced 4 extra bilge pumps - $1,000
Replaced motor driven refrigeration with electric Ozefridge eutectic system - $1,800
3 x house batteries & 1 x starter battery - $800
Install battery monitor - $400
New RIB & outboard - $6,000
Replace all internal lights with LED - $300
Install 327W adjustable solar system with MPPT controller - $3,000
Purchase Honda EU20i generator $1,700
Purchase Engel portable freezer $700
Replace broken Raymarine wind transducer to mast head - $500
Haul out, clean, sand, antifoul, buff all fibreglass, wax polish, replace Yanmar (junk & frozen) raw water intake valves with ball valves, replace prop shaft seals, replace props with refurbished ones with new rubber cush, anodes - $7,000
Install extra 12 volt outlets, TV antenna, 12 volt TV etc $500
Rebuilt both raw water engine cooling pumps with new seals, impellors, shaft etc $600
Instal 3G/4G wifi modem with external antenna - $300
Replace all halyards - $400
Engine Oil & filter changes every 50 hours for first 200 hours, then every 100 hours.
Purchase oil pump for oil changes, buffing/polishing machine, multimeter, electric hot knife, ball of 20mm poly rope to make 6 off 40 metre cyclone warps etc etc etc etc.

I read so often people saying that ex-charter boats are to be avoided due to their abused life & the cost to fit out. Well I guess some might even say that the list above testifies to this. However, I disagree as if it wasn't for the much reduced initial purchase price we would still be waiting, & the fact that we now know every aspect of the boat. Plus we have installed what we want & where we want it, & enjoy doing the "personal customisation". And I believe we are still way ahead money wise as we have done most things ourselves.

Hope this helps.

Dave
Seabreeze L380 #241
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Old 16-04-2013, 08:45   #4
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Hi Dave,

Just wondering, did you do all the install/repairs yourself or did you hire someone for some of it? Your costs look quite reasonable to me for what you did - good work! Thanks,
Mark
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Old 16-04-2013, 10:12   #5
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Mark,

We have done most of the installs ourselves. Apart from mechanical things like maintenance of the sail drives & rebuilding the water pumps.

Oh & I paid someone to do the 2.5 days of fiberglass buffing cause I'm getting too old for working a 5kg buffing machine, especially upside down under the bridge deck. It was worth it as he got the gel coat looking a treat.

I did follow him along to do the waxing & I watched all the mechanical maintenance on the sail drives, so I can do it myself next time.

Apart from those I have done all the rest myself. I love the tinkering & challenge of customization.
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Old 16-04-2013, 10:48   #6
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A lot would depend on the size of the boat, and other factors like does she have a/c already, etc etc... I always recommend to my clients to use their boat for a couple of weeks, and decide what they really want/need an then start the work process.
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Old 16-04-2013, 12:30   #7
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Re: Costs to upgrade Ex-charter

The spreadsheet in my sig (cruising equipment) might be a useful start - or it might not!

The prices included are very much ballpark (and some could be very wrong!) - so verify! The big variable is fitting costs which are likely affected by location.
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Old 16-04-2013, 12:58   #8
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Re: Costs to upgrade Ex-charter

I am sure buying an ex-charter boat will save some cruisers some money.
The problem is if you’re a persnickety owner and like your boat just perfect, the ex-charter boat will most likely never be in Bristol condition.

Charter boats are like letting all the kids with learners permits in your neighborhood drive your car for five years. It may be running when you get it back, but it’s going to suck big time. Things will break or not work suddenly for no reason.

We have chartered for years and these boats are pretty beat. If your handy and can do a lot of the work yourself you may have a good shot at success.
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Old 16-04-2013, 15:21   #9
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Re: Costs to upgrade Ex-charter

Probably the key expense will be engines. Charter boats use their engines a lot, and especially so if they have engine driven refrigeration. On the up side - they do at least get regular maintence and inspection that many private boat engines don't
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Old 16-04-2013, 18:12   #10
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Re: Costs to upgrade Ex-charter

So, is it such a big deal to drop in 2 new units? Sounds like a great idea anyhow, on a used boat. What will a couple of identical engines cost to drop in....$30K ?



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Probably the key expense will be engines. Charter boats use their engines a lot, and especially so if they have engine driven refrigeration. On the up side - they do at least get regular maintence and inspection that many private boat engines don't
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Old 17-04-2013, 01:00   #11
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Re: Costs to upgrade Ex-charter

Thanks all for the replies.

We realise the ex-charter will be well used but i think with the upgrades that we intend we should still end up with a reasonable boat. Any boat will always need money sunk into it and as long as it gets us sitting in a beautiful turquoise bay with white sand and palm trees, we'll be happy

Dave, i think your costings look good. I'm anticipating about $50k so i'm glad to see your list. I like the idea of doing as much as we can ourselves but there may be a lot of Dummy books needed lol.

David OJ - thanks for the postings you've created. I'll definitely check these out and do some due diligence but always good to have a starting point. Cheers.

Andrea
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Old 17-04-2013, 01:40   #12
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Re: Costs to upgrade Ex-charter

I'm in the middle of doing a Jeanneau Sun Fast 40.3 up to become a circumnavigator. We like our comforts, but do not expect to be able live as we do on land (neither do we want to circumnavigate living as if we have a pup tent).

I expect when done to have spent approximately USD 40. This includes:
new batteries,
solar
spare sails
Radar/new chart plotter
watermaker
new prop
bigger anchors

The USD 40 does not include all the spare parts
engine
filters (fuel/oil/water/watermaker etc)
cordage
impelelrs
etc etc

I expect these items to add USD 10-15

USD 50 is probably a good number - but of depends on what you are retrofitting for short coastal cruising? live-aboard? circumnavigation?

Good luck

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Old 17-04-2013, 02:11   #13
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Re: Costs to upgrade Ex-charter

The thing is, most boats are not set up for extended cruising, so unless you buy one already set up for extended cruising, the cost is pretty much the same if you buy a private boat or ex charter boat.

I spent around 30K in US to kit out my ex charter for long distance, but my ex charter was much cheaper than private boats, which did not have any real cruising gear either.

What you get on private boats is less dents ,scratches, bashes and wear and tear, but possibly more hidden things, charter boats are used and have to be reasonably sea worthy, private boats can be in any state of repair, with god knows what hidden away.

Now lets face it, most of what we like to have as cruisers is luxury, my ex charter boat could have been sailed around the world as is, without the 30k spent on it, but hey watermakers are handy as are davits,generators etc, but in no way essential. Solar panels are cheap, mounting more expensive.

My advice,depending on your ability at diy - either buy ex charter at rock bottom, or carefully buy an ex cruisers boat, with a very close inspection.
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Old 17-04-2013, 02:37   #14
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Re: Costs to upgrade Ex-charter

Another thing you have to look at is how long you are going cruising for? A lot of items make very little sense unless you are going for a long time, watermakers, solar/wind, generators, fancy dinghys etc . The amount of spares you carry , all sorts. As others have said , go cruising on your bog standard boat for a few months then see what you really need or want - to make life easier.
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Old 18-04-2013, 06:44   #15
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Re: Costs to upgrade Ex-charter

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Originally Posted by Brogan007 View Post
So, is it such a big deal to drop in 2 new units? Sounds like a great idea anyhow, on a used boat. What will a couple of identical engines cost to drop in....$30K ?
You can factor in about $200 to $400 per 1 horsepower if replacing engines with new. So a 50 horse would be $10,000 to $20,000 installed. Lotsa variables in there like haulout, saildrives, diy etc.
FWIW And you can use $10 to $20 per sq.ft. as a guideline for new sails.
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