cost question

[Mknebes]

Here's my big question- what is insurance?? I can accept all the variables with rigging and all the other replacements and such and perhaps I'm just an idiot... At the boat show">Miami boat show I was trying to get an answer from the broker we have been talking to and they refused to give an answer. We are looking at a lagoon 440 used (obviously used) in the next year (hello Agape and Twixter-the short list) but no one will ever hint at Insurance costs. That is my major concern- premiums and deductibles. Got a bit scared after reading about the $88k deductible with the 50 lagoon- but what is realistic with a 440?

Monica

[Rohan]

Originally Posted by scarlet

Darn if I don't learn something on this board everyday!!! that is a cool little gadget!! and only $39.00 on Amazon!!!

But that Wonderwash is only 12" x 12" x 16" big! Might be OK for washing bikinis, but I have doubts I would be able to get just one pair of jeans in there, much less a bedsheet.

[Factor]

I made up a net with some old line, put one of these in the net with some water and powder (not much) shackle the top closed and have a swivel and then line out the back, sail for 20 mintues and then rinse cycle. The one I use is a 20 Litre, I also have one of those as my emergency grab bag.

[Factor]

And here is the photo I hope - for some reason it won't show?

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

I think this is the real crux of the matter.. and pretty close time frame wise. I am shocked at some of the figures people mention for maintenance.... but it depends on how you look at it.
On most my boats I made them "near perfect" before I left. So for instance/one example: in 2.5 years of cruising on my $330k 47 footer, I doubt I spent more than $5-6K in maintenance in 2.5 years. But I spent $50k before leaving. It's how you look at the accounting.

That's 7%... right? so that's in line with some of these quotes...

[smj]

Way to many variables to have a set percentage. Age of boat, condition of boat, how is the boat equipped, is the owner a DIY type individual, do the owners work at a chandlery and get a good discount. The list goes on.

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by smj

Way to many variables to have a set percentage. Age of boat, condition of boat, how is the boat equipped, is the owner a DIY type individual, do the owners work at a chandlery and get a good discount. The list goes on.

But you have to estimate somewhat.. or you may get in WAY over your head on a boat.. cost of the boat is one thing.. you KNOW what that will cost.. But, if you buy a boat.. and all of a sudden are faced with $20,000 worth of maintainance per year... that may be WAY more than you can handle...

[smj]

Originally Posted by scarlet

But you have to estimate somewhat.. or you may get in WAY over your head on a boat.. cost of the boat is one thing.. you KNOW what that will cost.. But, if you buy a boat.. and all of a sudden are faced with $20,000 worth of maintainance per year... that may be WAY more than you can handle...

I understand. But if that's the case I would suggest you start with a boat that is easy affordable instead of starting with a boat that you may not be able to afford. If this is your first cruising cat and you feel you may be stretching the budget a bit then back of a little. Better to start of small and make your way up.

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by smj

I understand. But if that's the case I would suggest you start with a boat that is easy affordable instead of starting with a boat that you may not be able to afford. If this is your first cruising cat and you feel you may be stretching the budget a bit then back of a little. Better to start of small and make your way up.

That's exactly what I'm trying to do.. figure out what I can afford..

[smj]

Originally Posted by scarlet

That's exactly what I'm trying to do.. figure out what I can afford..

I'm sorry, maybe I should have worded that differently. Maybe start with a boat that you could very easily afford. That should give you a better idea on what you could afford when your dream boat comes around. A little experiance would go a long way.

[Tia Bu]

Scarlet:

I think your original question, as reasonable as it sounds at first, is a bit like asking, "What does it cost to eat a meal in a restaurant?"

The truth is, you can find restaurant meals that fully consume almost any budget, from the most meager to the most extravagant.

You can find responsible, functional, maintenance programs for cruising boats that run the same gamut. The more useful approach might be to figure out how much you have and are willing to spend, and then figure out how to cruise on that amount. It strikes me that is what people really end up doing, anyway. Thus the very wide range of experience you see described above. For what it's worth.

People have cruised all over the world in boats that were given to them for free (Joshua Slocum), or boats they bought for $5000 (Fatty Goodlander), or boats they spent over $400 million on (Thomas Perkins). Come to think of it, it wouldn't be surprising if the annual maintenance budget for each of those famous cruisers was in the rough ballpark of 10% of purchase price.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by smj

I'm sorry, maybe I should have worded that differently. Maybe start with a boat that you could very easily afford. That should give you a better idea on what you could afford when your dream boat comes around. A little experiance would go a long way.

But remember, she ain't going cheap. She has like four kids (teens) and another younger. Plus a gandma. Lord knows what else for baggage. It is going to have to be a pretty big boat.................
The square of X I think will apply.

[scarlet]

Originally Posted by Therapy

But remember, she ain't going cheap. She has like four kids (teens) and another younger. Plus a gandma. Lord knows what else for baggage. It is going to have to be a pretty big boat.................
The square of X I think will apply.

Huh? are you talking about me? because I don't have any children... and my grandparents are deceased.. and we are not going big.

But, if we are deciding between a $300,000 and a $400,000 boat.. is not that much of a difference in price of the boat.. but, could mean a huge difference in quality and liveablilty. The only problem is... how much is the after purchase expenses? There is a HUGE range on that.. and whilst we could easily afford an expensive year or two... 10 years at that high dollar amount would put a damper on our fun.. and future retirement years..for sure...

So, again... it is finding a good balance... and really all your comments have been extremely helpful.. I just need to run some numbers.. and figure out best and worst case scenerio... to make sure our 'worst case scenerio' won't be over what we could afford...

BTW.. does everyone think in these terms? or am I just particularily concerned?

[valhalla360]

Most people do not buy the perfect boat the first time out, often make outfitting mistakes and break things as they are learning. There are a lot of people who take a blood bath in in financial term because they bought poorly and just want out. While it's good to learn as much as possible ahead of time, you won't really have a good feel until you get out there.

Since this is your first cruising boat. I would suggest small and cheap so your mistakes won't cost you as much with the idea that you have enough set aside to move up after a year or two when you have a better idea of what you really want.

For every couple who sold it all and sailed happily into the sunset without a clue, there are dozens who are miserable and gave up.

Sorry if that sounds grumpy but it is meant well. Have an exit strategy and assume worst case senarios and you will be pleasently suprised when it turns out better.

[CaptainBW]

Scarlet,

I know how much of a struggle this question is. Everyone has gone through this at some point, and it is very difficult to answer without making some assumptions (many have been listed in this thread). Attached is a PDF from Beth Leonard that is an excerpt from her book The Voyager's Handbook. I downloaded the PDF from her web site (at no cost) before I decided to buy the book. I found this book to be the best single resource to prepare for cruising and living aboard. I recommend it to every person that is new to cruising or living aboard. Get it and read the section on selecting a boat before you layout 1/2 million $.

The article in the PDF shows some of the variables that relate to cruising costs and lumps the scenarios into three example cruisers. The costs are a little dated, but give you the idea. There is much more more detail in the book. The boat maintenance costs are directly related to how much work you do yourself and how you leverage things like haul outs (grouping related work around haul out cost) as an example.

We do most of the work ourselves but do hire out some jobs. We seem to spend boat maintenance money in chunks every 2-3 years but average out around 5-7% of our purchase price per year. Our boat is well equipped and was in decent shape with fairly new sails and canvas when we bought her. We also got a very good deal on her, so I am thinking that if we paid normal selling price the amount would be more like 8-10%, and our planning budget is 8%. This is boat maintenance only. Marina and normal boat operating costs (like fuel) are not included.

There is a big difference between outfitting (getting the boat ready) and annual maintenance. Beth's book does a good job of outlining those aspects, as well as all aspects of the cruising lifestyle.

PM me if you would like more detail.