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Old 01-03-2018, 19:58   #1
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Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

Hello everyone, I am hoping the more experienced sailors will chime in here! I am pulling the trigger and planning to enter the cruising world next year, but am a little concerned that with money being tight I may fail somewhere along the line and wanted opinions. The goal would be to sail for the next 5-10 years around the Globe.

First, my purchase: My choices are a Lagoon 380, 400, or 410 or a Fountaine Pajot Athena 38, Lipari 41 or Lavezzi 40. The year of manufacture I am looking at is 2000 through 2007. My price range is maxed out at 170k with about 30k saved for a refit. After that I will have NO liquid cash and if something happens, I would have 30k remaining in a Roth 401k I could withdraw.

Income: I would have $2300/month passively (rental income plus stocks minus insurance) of which I broke down the following PER MONTH:


Boat Maintenance: 1000
Food: 450
Mooring: 200
Gas: 80
Phone: 60
B0at Insurance: 500


Total: $2290


Now I am aware that the margins look VERY close, but I am also hopeful that I will not be spending $1000 EVERY month on maintenance and that getting a full refit would lower large expenses along the way. I am also aware that there is not money left over for exploration, entertainment, or travel away from the boat, but am hopeful I may be able to earn some money while traveling. I am also hoping to be at anchor often and hopefully avoid a $200/mo charge every now and then, but put that in for the times we need a haul out and to dry dock..

I have always subscribed to the philosophy that where there is a will, there is a way, but I do not have the sailing experience to verify that this is not a complete failure waiting to happen.

I have watched EVERY SINGLE VIDEO out there on cost and it appears I could make it work by comparison. What says this knowledgeable group? Do my estimated costs seem accurate?

Thanks all!
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Old 01-03-2018, 20:21   #2
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

I live full time aboard (mono). It will be tight but you could do it in my opinion. My living expenses aren't a great deal my spending on the boat, setting it up is alot. It depends on personal standards and desires.

This boat is new to me (15 mths) and I haven't hesitated to spend getting it to the standard I want. I've probably replaced stuff earlier than others may of but I get piece of mind and piece of mind costs money.

Desires, buying a dive compressor at the moment, definitely not not a need.

With a boat in good condition and desires in check, I think you could just scrape in on the amount you propose, but it will be on the tight side, people do it on less but I believe their boat maintenance (for round the world cruising) suffers.

Have a look at chuckr posts, he keeps accurate records and I think he averages around 3k/mth?
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Old 01-03-2018, 20:30   #3
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

With a budget that tight you may want to look at a mono. You'll get a lot nicer monohull for the money, and maintenance costs will be lower on average.

I'm getting ready to replace two of the three electric toilets in my boat. Flush $1000+ along with the old heads. That's how it goes with a cat. More stuff, and more broken stuff.
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Old 01-03-2018, 21:06   #4
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

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Originally Posted by Tornadosailing View Post
With a budget that tight you may want to look at a mono. You'll get a lot nicer monohull for the money, and maintenance costs will be lower on average.

I'm getting ready to replace two of the three electric toilets in my boat. Flush $1000+ along with the old heads. That's how it goes with a cat. More stuff, and more broken stuff.
I hesitate to agree in fear of setting the daily cat VS mono debate off, but I do agree, although I'm not sure the maintenance costs are great deal more.

I would like a cat BUT I chose a large mono because I believe I could (and did) get alot more boat (condition wise) for my money.

I've spent approx 185k (135k boat purchase and approx 50k upgrades) usd but are fully equipped, new sails, rigging, Hydrovane, new big watermaker, 1100hrs on engine, even all my tools and jerry cans are new.

I looked at cats including lagoons but I perceived more value in a large mono, thus went that way.

I budget on approx 3k/mth, this is doable as I've put the money in up front to get the boat right, of course there will be unseen issues thus you need a slush fund for those.

Ps.if. Had a couple of rolly nights recently, may of made the wrong decision.. Lol.
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Old 01-03-2018, 21:50   #5
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Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

Your refit cost seems pretty low. The voyagers handbook has some good stuff about budgeting. They use an example throughout of an imaginary couple in a 40 foot cat. Good luck! 🤙🏻
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Old 01-03-2018, 22:53   #6
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tornadosailing View Post
With a budget that tight you may want to look at a mono. You'll get a lot nicer monohull for the money, and maintenance costs will be lower on average.

I'm getting ready to replace two of the three electric toilets in my boat. Flush $1000+ along with the old heads. That's how it goes with a cat. More stuff, and more broken stuff.
True that. No one on a Spartan cruising budget should be considering cats. There are simply too many blue-water monohulls available for far less money (and upkeep costs).
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Old 01-03-2018, 23:14   #7
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

Quote:
Originally Posted by tanre View Post
Hello everyone, I am hoping the more experienced sailors will chime in here! I am pulling the trigger and planning to enter the cruising world next year, but am a little concerned that with money being tight I may fail somewhere along the line and wanted opinions. The goal would be to sail for the next 5-10 years around the Globe.

First, my purchase: My choices are a Lagoon 380, 400, or 410 or a Fountaine Pajot Athena 38, Lipari 41 or Lavezzi 40. The year of manufacture I am looking at is 2000 through 2007. My price range is maxed out at 170k with about 30k saved for a refit. After that I will have NO liquid cash and if something happens, I would have 30k remaining in a Roth 401k I could withdraw.

Income: I would have $2300/month passively (rental income plus stocks minus insurance) of which I broke down the following PER MONTH:


Boat Maintenance: 1000
Food: 450
Mooring: 200
Gas: 80
Phone: 60
B0at Insurance: 500


Total: $2290


Now I am aware that the margins look VERY close, but I am also hopeful that I will not be spending $1000 EVERY month on maintenance and that getting a full refit would lower large expenses along the way. I am also aware that there is not money left over for exploration, entertainment, or travel away from the boat, but am hopeful I may be able to earn some money while traveling. I am also hoping to be at anchor often and hopefully avoid a $200/mo charge every now and then, but put that in for the times we need a haul out and to dry dock..

I have always subscribed to the philosophy that where there is a will, there is a way, but I do not have the sailing experience to verify that this is not a complete failure waiting to happen.

I have watched EVERY SINGLE VIDEO out there on cost and it appears I could make it work by comparison. What says this knowledgeable group? Do my estimated costs seem accurate?

Thanks all!
I would have thought you could get a better price on insurance. It's generally not far from 1% of the insured value per year.

The other costs will depend very much on the individual.

We only spend about $250-300 a year on marina fees. About one week. But it would be easy to spend more than your budget amount.

Same with your fuel budget. If you're a determined sailor or you don't go far your budget should be OK, it's about what we use sailing around 5-6000 miles per year, and doing lots of miles in the dinghy, but many people use much more.
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Old 02-03-2018, 00:13   #8
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

Same as the rest: Why did you choose a Cat? If you're absolutely wedded to the idea, no sweat, but they are quite a bit more expensive for what you get, and what they can do. If you're looking to vagabond around the world, a good mono will be half the price and get you there just as well (some would say in more safety but I know this can of worms so strike that from the record ) Marina and haul out fees will be much more for a cat, but if you stay on the hook, then maybe you'll like the roomier cat.... who knows. So, back to my question: Any particular reasons to choose a cat?
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Old 02-03-2018, 01:07   #9
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

We Brits have an inbuilt sense of frugality. Sometimes when I see the costs here and compare them to mine, I wonder why the difference.

First. Buying the Cat. Buying an older named brand cat cheap, will not be a cheap cat in the long run. Its cheap for a reason. Usually that reason becomes apparent in the refit.

You might be better looking at older non main brand cats that have been kept in pristine condition and have been refurbished and updated with running rigging, sails, plumbing, electrics etc. Dont worry overmuch if the electronics are a little older. They worked great when purchased and will work now, just without some bells and whistles. Make sure the vessel is sound via the survey. The more you can keep the initial purchase price down on a well kept boat, also lessens the cost of a refurb. Dont buy a name, buy a good boat!

Ask yourself, Do I need a 38 foot Cat? Only you can answer this. For me and others with fixed incomes and expenditures, I had to look at what suits me as a solo sailor who wants to take friends occasionally, and I settled on 30 ft as being adequate and preferable. 32 foot MAX but that extra 2 foot gets penalised in Med marinas during looting the sailors season.

Spend money on ground tackle. If you are going to anchor out, make sure you will NOT MOVE. Look to being as self sufficient as possible, water maker or rain collectors, solar is cheap now for power. Make sure you have a good cooker and adequate storage for food. Cooking on board will save you 300% of what you will spend ashore. Look after your engines. Take time to be gentle with your sails and winches. Sail moderately. I get longer use out of my sails than my friends and over a year am no slower than they are getting to destinations overall. I would rather lose a knot an hour and keep my sails that have to replace them a year or two earlier...

You will not get a return on your investment. If the boat is cheap, you probably paid what it was worth and whatever you put into it will not add appreciation.

Sailing is a rich mans game when you listen to the sales hype. It doesnt have to be if you are content with good quality though a little older.

Best wishes for your plans and many years of happiness in sailing.
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Old 02-03-2018, 05:04   #10
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

weavis, I like you quote at the bottom of your post.
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Old 02-03-2018, 05:23   #11
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

Personally I think your too tight on your numbers. If your going to hang around one area then it's doable but your talking about world travel and that means to me that your maintenance/refit budget is not adequate. You need to rethink your complete budget in my opinion.
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Old 02-03-2018, 05:54   #12
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

First.. Your budget will be VERY tight, but doable. I will back that statement up by saying our family of five lives on a 40ft catamaran for less than that down here in the Caribbean.

Second. Your sailing experience. It can be done with no experience. When we bought our boat in south Cuba I had zero experience and actually had "sailing for dummies" open on the salon table as we headed 700nm to Key West. 3 days in I realized I was over my head to ditched to Cancun. DO NOT DO THIS. Although I got away with it, I was stupid. I left the boat in Cancun and went back to Canada and learned some basic sailing skills before attempting the run up to Key West (still somewhat stupid)

Third. Your budget for a cat and refit is completely doable as long as you do all the work. Again I will back this up by saying we did it for less 2 years ago. I actually wrote a blog where I said about $175K (all in) was the minimum. HOWEVER, that may have changed with the hurricanes this year. Boats (especially cats) seem to have gone up in price.

Fourth. Your mooring budget is VERY low if you actually intend to moor, even 10 days a month. At least down here in the Caribbean, the cost of moorings is pretty standard at $30usd/day. Furthermore, if you plan to stay at marinas even occasionally that budget will be gone in 2 nights (marinas are $2-$3usd/foot/night). Haul out costs vary but usually run around $800-$1000 for the haul, block and launch, then the monthly cost for storage or work.

Fifth. Unless you have a way to earn income remotely, don't count on earning anything. No matter what skills you have, you will not make any appreciable money from other cruisers. If you plan to earn money in the local economy, then rethink this. Legal issues abound and although some places are OK with this, others are not. Its definately not something you can rely on.

Sixth. YOU WOULD BE CRAZY TO LEAVE WITHOUT A SUM OF LIQUID CASH. Seriously, no matter how good you plan, you will get bit. Something as simple as a dead windlass can leave you in a bad spot and cost $2-3 thousand to replace.

Now I would like to give you an opinion (since I can't back this up with experience). You will have a tough time sailing around the world on that budget. The unknown costs of moving place to place and making big passages should not be underestimated.

I would encourage you to seek out the sailing vessel Totem on Facebook. They offer a consulting/mentoring service that I pretty sure you would find invaluable.

Good luck and I'm rooting for you. Feel free to ask any questions and I will try to answer honestly from our 2 years of cruising experience.
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:45   #13
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

Six posts in 3 years.

Any sailing experience? Minimal? Before thinking about world cruising, get something small or get in with some people and see if you like cruising and like cats. Make sure you're not just escaping a job you hate. Maybe try some isolated land cruising or back packing; you may not like the consolation, which is a big part of solo sailing.

The budget? Yes, I think it is thin, and I'm a cheapskate. I think it's too much boat for one. Either a mono or a smaller cat.
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Old 02-03-2018, 06:48   #14
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

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weavis, I like you quote at the bottom of your post.
I can rent it to you for a modest fee...

or do what I did and just borrow it...

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Old 02-03-2018, 06:49   #15
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Re: Cost of Catamaran Sailing (Yes AGAIN!)

I think you could find a better catamaran for a better price, as Weavis says, look at some of brands or custom built. I think your monthly income is more than enough.
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