Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

[DougM]

Thanks for the input guys, so after doing a little more research, I was thinking about the 34 ft Gemini 105Mc , I lose the speed but it seems like a good boat. I also like the thought of stability for guests and the comfort that I could offer in that boat. It also can be trucked easy from my understanding which is a good thing. Now at 34 ft Ive heard Cats can pitchpole alot easier, but I haven't looked at hard data or anything written by an engineer yet to confirm this, but it brings up a concern. Would this boat handle blue water?

I bought a Gemini 105Mc after two decades of owning monohulls, just finishing my 2nd season with it. It has its compromises (like everything) but in generaly I'm thrilled with the decision, and love the boat. You sure won't get 20 knots out of it, but its a great sailing boat and 10+ is easily achieved when the wind is up. interior wise, the use of space for is excellent and i love what they've done in 34 ft. Can't comment on blue water or pitchpoling as I'm a coastal cruiser, but I've been completely comfortable with the boat around cape breton / nfld / gulf of st lawrence, where we have interesting conditions at times.

[captlloyd]

Originally Posted by Wind459

Thanks for the input guys, so after doing a little more research, I was thinking about the 34 ft Gemini 105Mc , I lose the speed but it seems like a good boat. I also like the thought of stability for guests and the comfort that I could offer in that boat. It also can be trucked easy from my understanding which is a good thing. Now at 34 ft Ive heard Cats can pitchpole alot easier, but I haven't looked at hard data or anything writtten by an engineer yet to confirm this, but it brings up a concern. Would this boat handle blue water?

I think you are on the right track here. Yes, these boats have made some long blue water passages.

[snort]

This might do the trick....sort of: Searunner Multihulls - CC 37 Tri

but nothing beats the spaciousness of a cruising catamaran.

[UNCIVILIZED]

The reality of speed has been somewhat mentioned. But even with a fast boat you'll not average 10kts for more than a daysail, unless crewed by sharp sailors, when racing. And even if you could, the faster you go, the louder it is below. Which, having tired watchkeepers when doing double digits in the dark isn't the wisest idea. So don't buy a multi & think that you'll be routinely turning in 200nm days, even down hill/downwind. Though those stretches at 14kts for several hours sure are fun.

[senormechanico]

Last July, the wife and I averaged 8,5 knots with a Southerly over 4 days of daysailing to Desolation Sound.
It was mostly done with no main and deep reaching with an assymmetrical spinnaker.
I saw a lot of mid double digits.
It was great fun for me while my wife read a book in the cockpit, but it's not run of the mill sailing around here as there is not a lot of open water for reaching.
It's either up wind or DDW unless you gybe a lot.

I SMOKED a very well known (and beautiful wood) 40 foot tri on the way to Desolation which was doing 90 degree gybes with jib and full main while I just ran at apparent 120 with an assymetrical spi.
They congratulated me on our speed, but again, speed isnt' everything.

Windward performance, especially in light air is more important around here !

[ejlindahl]

If you are in the Seattle area come to one of our Northwest Multihull meetings on the first Tues of the month. Many Corsair/Farrier and other multihull owners. As well, you are welcome to come see my Corsair 31 in N. Seattle. Drop me a PM.

Eric

[peter57]

I use to own a 33ft ocean racing tri (super modified Crowther) with armas that lifted 4-5 ft at their bows to walk over waves and not lift the main hull to high. It blew plenty of corsairs to the weeds but not all.

You do not cruise at 20knots on this boat, as soon as you overtake the bow wave at around 8 knots your sentences have to heighten and your hand automatically attaches to the main sheet as you scout the water surface for gusts, at 14 knots you have to be very alert, at night drop the main, lots of fun but to call it cruising?

Don't need to carry to much fuel, but also forget carrying to many the other comforts, like having a splash shower at the end of the day of sailing fast when everything is covered in salt, not satisfying after many days because there was only enough spare water for one each. I want rattle on any further.

Lots of fun but she had to be sold to an another more hardcore.

Cheers.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by alansmith

James Woods designs,

Never heard of him and I thought I knew all the designers. Perhaps you mean Richard Woods

[belizesailor]

Used to race on Corsairs. Great fun. Amazing performance. But for long term cruising...not for me.

Have done overnight near coastal runs on them. Very uncomfortable and wet in even moderately heavy weather. Very noisy and rough when below...not possible to sleep off watch. Crew fatigue would quickly become an issue in sustained foul weather. Would be very hard to handle in serious heavy weather.

IMHO: Great racer, day sailer, weekend sail camping, but not really a cruising boat.

[belizesailor]

Here ya go: http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...d.php?t=139334

[alansmith]

That Gunboat I am speaking of capsized down in the Caribbean. Soon after that Gunboat went bankrupt. Now owned by another company.

Isn't the G4 a Gunboat? That capsize was a highly publizied event. It really messed with the allure of the Gunboat reputation. These are very sexy high performance kitties. Only the shamelessly rich can afford that kind of rig.

But I am sure it was a Gunboat that flipped.

[Andrew Grace]

Originally Posted by alansmith

That Gunboat I am speaking of capsized down in the Caribbean. Soon after that Gunboat went bankrupt. Now owned by another company.

Isn't the G4 a Gunboat? That capsize was a highly publizied event. It really messed with the allure of the Gunboat reputation. These are very sexy high performance kitties. Only the shamelessly rich can afford that kind of rig.

But I am sure it was a Gunboat that flipped.

Your kidding right?

Anyone that is informed on catamarans realises the G4 is nothing like the standard GB . You are comparing a f1 racing car vs a Ford pickup , the G4 capsize had nothing to do the GB chap 11, really this is just nonsense

[alansmith]

Factor, ha ha. ... the old brain strikes again. I should've just said Woods design. Thanks for catching that.

[alansmith]

Hi Andrew, pleased to meet you sir. Let us discuss this in a civil manner if you feel so inclined. I am willing. You call my statements "nonsense." Let me state my case.


I only said that a Gunboat capsized. Obviously it was not a chartered Sunsail cat with a bunch of drunks on board. This speed run was being photo op'd by helicopter. It also had a highly skilled crew aboard. So, when a boat of this pedigree goes over being driven by the caliber of yachtsmen on board...and it was really a photo op for GB....are you saying it doesn't impact business sales? These boats are manufactured for very rich people who want the cutting edge and the best money can buy. When they see something like this happen are you saying that it might not give "pause" to scribbling out millions of dollars on the checkbook? These GB are not America Cup racers. People who have the disposable income to buy one of these things are into status and having the best money can buy. I certainly can't think of any manufacturer, not a one off design, that can compete with the GB for sexiness and wow factor. I believe that the capsize G4 and the abandonment of "Rainmaker G55" contributed to business sales declines. Wealthy people see a boat like the G4 going at it and then she slowly goes over...being crewed with professional yachtsmen...Heh, Martha, maybe it is a little bit too much for us...very few wealthy people have the skill set to handle this sexy beast.


My only remark was that a GB capsized. Why do you take umbrage with that? Is a G4 not GB?


Now I will address the second part of your comment about the G4 capsize and how it related to the bankruptcy. I will copy and paste Peter Johnstone's statement that he released and in his own words stated that it was a combination of events "including" the capsize of the G4 and the abandonment of one of his primo Cats by crew on delivery....that further hastened the downfall of these wonderful machines. Here is the quote, sir:


Peter submits this commentary:
"In a period of non-stop accolades and introduction of several terrific new models, Gunboat has been quietly struggling behind the scenes for nearly two years. It has been a perfect storm of adverse business circumstances, mistakes, and disputes. A brief summary from my viewpoint/opinion:
• The Chinese built Gunboat 60 series cost Gunboat a fortune to sort out. The Chinese builder has fought its contractual obligations to manage, support, pay and reimburse for the completion, rework and warranty costs. Gunboat felt an obligation to its customers and spent millions out of pocket, which proved to be a huge strain on our resources, focus and productivity.
• The G4 capsize in April, and the recent photo boat collision on a magazine boat test in Annapolis have thwarted sales of this series to date. The investment was made. The return is in the future.
• The abandonment of RAINMAKER by her owner and crew certainly was not helpful to a new series. The Gunboat 55 is a great boat, and it will take time for that word to get out.
• The ramp up of production in North Carolina took longer and cost more"


So, these are the words out of the mouth of the owner of Gunboat. I had read them before. Because like you I am a lover of beautiful machines. I am sure you are also. Peter is a good guy and the sequence of events that took his company down are horrific....really beyond his control in my way of thinking. His statement is a matter of public record. You can read the whole statement by just putting into your search engine "what caused the bankrupty of Gunboat?" It will show you his whole statement.


So, If I read Peter's statement months ago and he clearly states that the G4 capsize influenced his business decline and I reiterate it....forgive me that you take it as nonsense. I was just reiterating what Peter J stated. Hope it helps you understand my comments better. Aren't we all better when we try to understand another person's point of view?

[SV DestinyAscen]

Originally Posted by alansmith

Hi Andrew, pleased to meet you sir. Let us discuss this in a civil manner if you feel so inclined. I am willing. You call my statements "nonsense." Let me state my case.


I only said that a Gunboat capsized. Obviously it was not a chartered Sunsail cat with a bunch of drunks on board. This speed run was being photo op'd by helicopter. It also had a highly skilled crew aboard. So, when a boat of this pedigree goes over being driven by the caliber of yachtsmen on board...and it was really a photo op for GB....are you saying it doesn't impact business sales? These boats are manufactured for very rich people who want the cutting edge and the best money can buy. When they see something like this happen are you saying that it might not give "pause" to scribbling out millions of dollars on the checkbook? These GB are not America Cup racers. People who have the disposable income to buy one of these things are into status and having the best money can buy. I certainly can't think of any manufacturer, not a one off design, that can compete with the GB for sexiness and wow factor. I believe that the capsize G4 and the abandonment of "Rainmaker G55" contributed to business sales declines. Wealthy people see a boat like the G4 going at it and then she slowly goes over...being crewed with professional yachtsmen...Heh, Martha, maybe it is a little bit too much for us...very few wealthy people have the skill set to handle this sexy beast.


My only remark was that a GB capsized. Why do you take umbrage with that? Is a G4 not GB?


Now I will address the second part of your comment about the G4 capsize and how it related to the bankruptcy. I will copy and paste Peter Johnstone's statement that he released and in his own words stated that it was a combination of events "including" the capsize of the G4 and the abandonment of one of his primo Cats by crew on delivery....that further hastened the downfall of these wonderful machines. Here is the quote, sir:


Peter submits this commentary:
"In a period of non-stop accolades and introduction of several terrific new models, Gunboat has been quietly struggling behind the scenes for nearly two years. It has been a perfect storm of adverse business circumstances, mistakes, and disputes. A brief summary from my viewpoint/opinion:
• The Chinese built Gunboat 60 series cost Gunboat a fortune to sort out. The Chinese builder has fought its contractual obligations to manage, support, pay and reimburse for the completion, rework and warranty costs. Gunboat felt an obligation to its customers and spent millions out of pocket, which proved to be a huge strain on our resources, focus and productivity.
• The G4 capsize in April, and the recent photo boat collision on a magazine boat test in Annapolis have thwarted sales of this series to date. The investment was made. The return is in the future.
• The abandonment of RAINMAKER by her owner and crew certainly was not helpful to a new series. The Gunboat 55 is a great boat, and it will take time for that word to get out.
• The ramp up of production in North Carolina took longer and cost more"


So, these are the words out of the mouth of the owner of Gunboat. I had read them before. Because like you I am a lover of beautiful machines. I am sure you are also. Peter is a good guy and the sequence of events that took his company down are horrific....really beyond his control in my way of thinking. His statement is a matter of public record. You can read the whole statement by just putting into your search engine "what caused the bankrupty of Gunboat?" It will show you his whole statement.


So, If I read Peter's statement months ago and he clearly states that the G4 capsize influenced his business decline and I reiterate it....forgive me that you take it as nonsense. I was just reiterating what Peter J stated. Hope it helps you understand my comments better. Aren't we all better when we try to understand another person's point of view?

I somewhat doubt his statement at face value - if one sporting boat capsize like the g4 can bankrupt a company, it was going under anyway. You can't save a company like gunboat with a handful of sales - need to keep the cash flow going and NC factory busy.

The biggest issue was probably the Gunboat 60 poorly supervised outsourcing and lack of sufficient orders for the 55. Expensive toys Gunboats are.