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Old 25-10-2016, 21:47   #1
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Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

Hello, I'm looking to get a boat in the next few months, Right now Im sort of set on a Hans Christian 33, but I just started checking out multihulls and oh my. My question to you all. I watched a Corsair get up to 22 knots, I want one for that reason, but the inside might be a tad small. Is there anything a little bigger that won't break the bank? Also I prefer a Trimarane if I was going this route, they look epic, and have amazing speed ? Anyway, is there anything that will do 20knots and still be a decent cruiser/liveaboard in this class between 50- 80 grand ? How are corsairs out in blue water? I plan to be in the Pacific Northwest the first couple of years as well if that matters.
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Old 25-10-2016, 22:18   #2
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

Trimarans tend to have the least ability to carry load without taking big performance hits of any vessel type out there. Especially in this size range. Catamarans do better, in that they can be designed to handle more loads, though they still suffer in terms of performance when loaded heavily (moderately). And of course lead mines suffer the least from this, but they don't sail like multi's typically.

Also, Farrier tri's were never really designed for true offshore work. Though lots of them have done such. Cats do do better in this regard, especially if designed as cruisers from the outset. So you'll find cruising cats, & performance cruising cats starting at about 30' & up.

To slake that 20kt lust, you'll have to figure out what balance you can live with between performance (racing oriented boats), & cruising types, on your own. Probably after doing some research.

In terms of other tri's in the quoted size range, there are Contours, Dragonflys, & at 40' you can find Condors. Plus perhaps a few other production designs, & a fair number of custom or semi-custom boats designed by various folks.

There's no shortage of info on all of this, & much more, here on the forums. So enjoy!
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Old 25-10-2016, 22:19   #3
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

A friend of mine with an F-27 says he can sleep 5 and stand up in the galley with the hatch open. There are several of them racing on and offshore San Francisco Bay. Maybe get in touch with BAMA (BAMA - San Francisco Bay Area Multihull Association) for more details about offshore capabilities.
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Old 25-10-2016, 22:41   #4
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

I'd not be keen on doing 20 knots in any cruiser/liveaboard multihull sailboat.

There's generally a strong negative correlation between potential speed and stability in multihulls, especially in blue water.
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Old 26-10-2016, 04:55   #5
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

This looks as though it would fit your requirements pretty well:

For Sale: Performance Cruising Trimaran - Trevor Banks 44 - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
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Old 26-10-2016, 05:48   #6
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
I'd not be keen on doing 20 knots in any cruiser/liveaboard multihull sailboat.

There's generally a strong negative correlation between potential speed and stability in multihulls, especially in blue water.
Agree, in part.

Would point out that your price point goes against the conventional wisdom that you can pick two of the three; speed, comfort, cost.

One reason I got my Seawind instead of an fboat is I wanted to cruise and the C31 was simply not big enough. I did meet a guy with a F39 and was impressed with it. He was cruising with his wife and the two of them could handle the boat. However he did say he had exceeded 20knots+. Thing was he only felt comfortable doing with with five peeps on the boat. And those peeps needed to know what they were doing.

Even on the smaller fboats you need to have some experience sailing fast or you can get in trouble. The C36 was bashed by Ian as poorly designed and it did have some failures going hard to windward. The C37 was a definite improvement but still no match for the F36 or F39.

While I would have no qualms about blue water cruising in a well founded F36 or F39 I am still not sure they would be as comfortable as something like a Seawind (or several other cats). For a less skilled sailor like me many cats also have the huge advantage of twin screws (often well forward) which allows them to spin in their own length or to walk sideways to a seawall.

For your price point you may be able to find one of the older tris (Brown, Cross, others) that are designed to carry more of a load than the newer designs. But realistically they won't sustain a 10 knot speed. Many of them tend to be made of plywood or older fiberglass and will require more of your time to maintain.

Cost, comfort, speed; pick any two.
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Old 26-10-2016, 08:33   #7
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

My wife and spent 4 weeks aboard sailing from the Chesapeake to Martha's Vineyard and back and had a great time. While our Corsair 36 is fast, fun and comfortable for the 2 of us, I know the Admiral would never live aboard. As we've gotten older we're now considering moving to a cat, but truth be told, she still won't spend more than a couple of weeks aboard!

We'll probably sell our baby next year if we make that decision, but it'll be for twice your budget, so you might want to re-consider. If you find a liveaboard tri in that range, it'll most like not sail anywhere near what your looking for. Just an fyi!

Good luck with your search!
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Old 26-10-2016, 09:29   #8
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

Thanks for the input guys, so after doing a little more research, I was thinking about the 34 ft Gemini 105Mc , I lose the speed but it seems like a good boat. I also like the thought of stability for guests and the comfort that I could offer in that boat. It also can be trucked easy from my understanding which is a good thing. Now at 34 ft Ive heard Cats can pitchpole alot easier, but I haven't looked at hard data or anything writtten by an engineer yet to confirm this, but it brings up a concern. Would this boat handle blue water?
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Old 26-10-2016, 10:21   #9
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

Although they both fall under the multi-hull category, there is little if any commonality between trimarans and catamarans. Cats are voluminous, comfortable, level and faster than a monohull when lightly loaded. Trimarans typically have tiny, cave- like interiors, and sail very fast with an experienced and brave crew, but a cruising trimaran is a contradiction in terms.
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Old 26-10-2016, 10:43   #10
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

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Originally Posted by JOHNMARDALL View Post
Although they both fall under the multi-hull category, there is little if any commonality between trimarans and catamarans. Cats are voluminous, comfortable, level and faster than a monohull when lightly loaded. Trimarans typically have tiny, cave- like interiors, and sail very fast with an experienced and brave crew, but a cruising trimaran is a contradiction in terms.
All the best
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While I certainly agree with the first half of your observation, I'd not be so quick to define cruising trimarans in the same fashion. Our 36' tri was very safe offshore without the heeling of a mono, but certainly didn't require more than the two of us to sail - even in some 6-8' seas, which came about suddenly. While it's true that the center hull houses the only living space (on this design) we were comforable.

We have a queen sized berth in the aft section and a full v-berth forward, a full head, sink and shower as well as settee with seating for four and galley with water (hot/cold) and 2 propane burner stove. I'd certainly say she holds her own against monos up to 35'.
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Old 26-10-2016, 11:46   #11
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

Although not overly old, I have lived long enough to see a big change in recreational sailing. From the first days of fiberglass monos when I was a kid to the big cats of today. In my eyes, this is similar (although in different ways) to skiing vs snow boarding. With skiing I share the slopes with people taking different lines and going at different speeds and crashing in different places. Frustrating at times. Much like it is to share water space with the new cats (or motor boats).

I can't blame folks for going to multi-hulls. Lots of room to entertain, generally higher sailing speeds, more stable ride. But as with skiing, I'm old fashioned. I enjoy what I grew up with. Motorcycles are no different, I own sport bikes, but enjoy the nostalgic feel of my Nortons and Triumphs.

Just getting back into sailing a few years ago, I of course ended up in the realm of mono-hulls. And somewhat thanks to cats and the economy, the prices on monos have dropped tremendously. Thankful at first (and still), I sometimes find myself lusting for the lure of speed. Just the thought of skimming the waves at 20 knots is exhilarating. Who hasn't spent hot days plodding along at walking speed to a destination you wish was a lot closer.

Although far from the perfect boat, there are times I really enjoy my Mac 26X. Slow day on the water? Hot and want to generate some breeze? I turn the key and zip along at 15-20 MPH. And when the destination is somewhere otherwise inaccessible or hundreds of miles away, I always have the option to trailer the boat at highway speeds.

Like many others, I actually enjoy working on a boat tied to the slip and really don't get out on the water much. When I'm on the water, I keep telling myself the journey is everything. It IS the destination. But arguably, there are times I just want to get there. So as I continue to read these interesting threads from many different perspectives, I also like to compare them to my own. And being who I am, my own perspective changes like the wind. Perhaps that's why I own multiple boats. Although I will be honest and say stupidity is mostly to blame (and ADD).

To the OP, I hope you find the boat that works for you. This a cruiser's forum and there are those that cruise, those that want to cruise and those that just like to watch from the sidelines. Some circumnavigate the globe, some want to do the big loop or winter in the islands. Some like me enjoy going out for a time, dipping the rod in once in a while (fishing), enjoy the view and sip on a few cocktails. Then the very next weekend I catch up on mowing the lawn and get those pesky leaves raked. The diversity of its people is what makes this forum (and a few others) so enjoyable.
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Old 26-10-2016, 12:05   #12
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

The F27 is quite small inside, especially for the price you pay. It sounds like you need to decide if you want to sail for speed, sport and fun or cruise.
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Old 26-10-2016, 12:47   #13
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

Heh Wind, it really is a conundrum, isn't it? With your budget of 80K tops you are limited in options when it comes to multihulls. Multihulls cost a lot more than monos because of the name....MULTI hulls. I have sailed the F31's and F27's for weeks at a time while vacationing. They are strictly coastal cruising machines. Very liveable for weeks at a time. One of the best things about them is there transportability. You want to do Baja for a month...how about the San Juans up in Vancouver....how about the Bahamas...how about the Great Lakes like up in Ontario? You just drive her up there and launch. Can it get better than that? No other boat that is too big for a trailer can offer such a menu of sexy cruising. People do the inland seas in the Netherlands...canals in France....on and on. Enough said..

To carry enough supplies and gear takes a bigger boat than the F31 or F27. The f36-37 or 39 are larger boats and quite expensive. There is one for sale in Australia for in the 130k range..but then shipping will cost u another 15k.

There are other designers that I would like to mention. Most of them are not transportable. Look at Jim Brown's Searunners, John Marples designs, James Woods designs, Simpson designed small cat, even the basic Wharram designs, Kurt Hughes, chris white cats...on and on.

Here is my conclusion: Buy a boat that fits your primary needs and you can afford to buy her and keep her. If you want a liveaboard...the f27 and f31 might work for a single person for a couple of seasons. If you want a speed machine and don't want to pay berthing fees and all of the problems associated with keeping a boat in the water...Corsair/Farrier boats are high on the list to be considered. There is an excellent thread going on right now about shallow draft boats. Use the Cruisers Forum search engine ...and expertise of it's members. There are literally thousands of years of combined experience to be tapped into here. Sometimes they fight like brothers...but it is just different perspectives.

Myself...I always thought that I would be a multihull sailor when I retire. Now I understand that I don't have the money to buy a larger multihull and keep her up. I can buy a good solid monohull for 40 k all day long that is in very good condition and will take all of the provisioning I need for months.

BTW, blasting along at 20 knots is a blast...but it is wet and you are sailing on the brink of danger. Your centerboard is singing and your rudder cavitates as your stern lifts and you fly bow first into the wave in front of you. Quite exciting. Watch some of the Gunboat videos where they capsize...unbelievable machines. best of luck...do your homework
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Old 26-10-2016, 12:50   #14
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wind459 View Post
Hello, I'm looking to get a boat in the next few months, Right now Im sort of set on a Hans Christian 33, but I just started checking out multihulls and oh my. My question to you all. I watched a Corsair get up to 22 knots, I want one for that reason, but the inside might be a tad small. Is there anything a little bigger that won't break the bank? Also I prefer a Trimarane if I was going this route, they look epic, and have amazing speed ? Anyway, is there anything that will do 20knots and still be a decent cruiser/liveaboard in this class between 50- 80 grand ? How are corsairs out in blue water? I plan to be in the Pacific Northwest the first couple of years as well if that matters.
If you plan to cruise, get the Hans Christian 33 or something similar and forget the speed thing

I've raced beside Corsairs etc for years. They are basically a larger version of a beachcat. Nothing you'd want to take offshore

Also, when cruising you are talking lots of time as in days, weeks, and months ........ not hours

When you are sailing a light weight sailboat at 18 -24 knots plus, you had better be 100% focused or you will pitchpole it (or flip it) and may break something

You cannot be 100% focused all the time over a long period as in cruising
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Old 26-10-2016, 15:19   #15
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Re: Corsair alternatives for a liveaboard ?

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Originally Posted by alansmith View Post
Heh Wind, it really is a conundrum, isn't it? With your budget of 80K tops you are limited in options when it comes to multihulls. Multihulls cost a lot more than monos because of the name....MULTI hulls. I have sailed the F31's and F27's for weeks at a time while vacationing. They are strictly coastal cruising machines. Very liveable for weeks at a time. One of the best things about them is there transportability. You want to do Baja for a month...how about the San Juans up in Vancouver....how about the Bahamas...how about the Great Lakes like up in Ontario? You just drive her up there and launch. Can it get better than that? No other boat that is too big for a trailer can offer such a menu of sexy cruising. People do the inland seas in the Netherlands...canals in France....on and on. Enough said..

To carry enough supplies and gear takes a bigger boat than the F31 or F27. The f36-37 or 39 are larger boats and quite expensive. There is one for sale in Australia for in the 130k range..but then shipping will cost u another 15k.

There are other designers that I would like to mention. Most of them are not transportable. Look at Jim Brown's Searunners, John Marples designs, James Woods designs, Simpson designed small cat, even the basic Wharram designs, Kurt Hughes, chris white cats...on and on.

Here is my conclusion: Buy a boat that fits your primary needs and you can afford to buy her and keep her. If you want a liveaboard...the f27 and f31 might work for a single person for a couple of seasons. If you want a speed machine and don't want to pay berthing fees and all of the problems associated with keeping a boat in the water...Corsair/Farrier boats are high on the list to be considered. There is an excellent thread going on right now about shallow draft boats. Use the Cruisers Forum search engine ...and expertise of it's members. There are literally thousands of years of combined experience to be tapped into here. Sometimes they fight like brothers...but it is just different perspectives.

Myself...I always thought that I would be a multihull sailor when I retire. Now I understand that I don't have the money to buy a larger multihull and keep her up. I can buy a good solid monohull for 40 k all day long that is in very good condition and will take all of the provisioning I need for months.

BTW, blasting along at 20 knots is a blast...but it is wet and you are sailing on the brink of danger. Your centerboard is singing and your rudder cavitates as your stern lifts and you fly bow first into the wave in front of you. Quite exciting. Watch some of the Gunboat videos where they capsize...unbelievable machines. best of luck...do your homework

Where do you find these videos of Gunboats capsizing? I looked on you tube and could only find the G4.
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