Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-11-2015, 12:00   #16
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff326 View Post
Aren't we ignoring the elephant in the room here? I'm looking for a blue water Cat, but what concerns me, and I'm sure others, is the forward cockpit together with the access door.
I had that concern as well.

There are three handles that close the access door.

The drain for the forward cockpit is quite large.

I like that fact that you have easy access to the trampoline and the forward locker through the forward cockpit. That is very handy for rigging the gennaker, checking water levels in the tanks (I would have liked tank monitors) and access to the generator.
__________________

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 12:53   #17
Registered User
 
Saleen411's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Discovery Bay, CA
Posts: 582
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

[QUOTE=geoff326;1957082]Aren't we ignoring the elephant in the room here? I'm looking for a blue water Cat, but what concerns me, and I'm sure others, is the forward cockpit together with the access door.[/QUOTE

It certainly concerned us and the many salts I spoke with at the boat show">Annapolis boat show. Some had STRONG opinions about "The Door". However, opinions are just that....
__________________

__________________
"Man cannot discover new oceans unless he has the courage to lose sight of the shore"- Andre' Gide
Saleen411 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 13:33   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
Jeanneau 45.2's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Currently in the Atlantic along USA coast, heading to the Bahamas for winter 2017-2018
Boat: 2000 Jeanneau, 45.2
Posts: 140
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

N2CLIMBING, I can't comment on ocean performance beyond what I noted in my original post. Personally, I would not be comfortable with the open stern in a heavy following sea. There is no bridge deck on the aft sliding door, and that is the door I would be worried about. However the front door seems to dog down water tight. Also loss of items rolling off the stern seems a real possibility. However as noted in my first post, I personally prefer (and own) an ocean mono hull with enclosed transom and small bridge deck at the companionway ... so perhaps I am not the most objective reviewer.

jackdale, I agree with your comments. Good insight. On my boat things seemed well screwed together, although all the dome lights on the targa top over the rear seating area filled with water.
__________________
Jeanneau 45.2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 15:37   #19
Registered User

Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 47
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
I had that concern as well.

There are three handles that close the access door.

The drain for the forward cockpit is quite large.

I like that fact that you have easy access to the trampoline and the forward locker through the forward cockpit. That is very handy for rigging the gennaker, checking water levels in the tanks (I would have liked tank monitors) and access to the generator.
It would be interesting to calculate the volume of the forward cockpit and how much extra weight would be added if it was full of seawater; with big waves swamping the cockpit one would have to have a lot of faith in the drain you mention to avoid pitch poling.
__________________
geoff326 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 16:17   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Deltaville, VA
Boat: 2017 Leopard 40
Posts: 17
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

Re: Forward Cockpit Issue - check this link (you might need to join the Yahoo Leopard Owners Group):
https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/...messages/15011
__________________
n2climbing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 17:54   #21
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff326 View Post
It would be interesting to calculate the volume of the forward cockpit and how much extra weight would be added if it was full of seawater; with big waves swamping the cockpit one would have to have a lot of faith in the drain you mention to avoid pitch poling.
The drain is larger is that any cockpit drains I have ever seen.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 18:26   #22
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 2,839
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

I think id buy a several year old 46 for I'm assuming the same money if I wanted a blue water boat.
__________________
Check out my MoJo: Facebook.com/mojomarine1
Boatguy30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 18:40   #23
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by geoff326 View Post
Aren't we ignoring the elephant in the room here? I'm looking for a blue water Cat, but what concerns me, and I'm sure others, is the forward cockpit together with the access door.
Exactly. Having taken some unexpected greenies over the saloon roof on my cat already I dread to think what would have happened in the same conditions with a forward opening saloon. This would be a complete non starter for me in a bluewater cat (and who wants to actually own, as opposed to charter in nice coastal conditions, a cat that isnt bluewater capable?)

Just another example of the charter market desires compromising good boat design...

As to the Op question my 2c is charter a wider variety of cats before honing in on one maker.They all have their pluses and compromises and only through personal experience can you decide whats right for you and the admiral.
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 18:59   #24
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post
Just another example of the charter market desires compromising good boat design...
Leopard moves a lot of the Sunsail and Moorings charter boats from Cape Town on their bottoms.

I spoke with a couple of the delivery skippers before we crossed the South Atlantic. None expressed any concerns about the forward cockpit.
__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 19:09   #25
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackdale View Post
Leopard moves a lot of the Sunsail and Moorings charter boats from Cape Town on their bottoms.

I spoke with a couple of the delivery skippers before we crossed the South Atlantic. None expressed any concerns about the forward cockpit.
No offense mate but they are paid by Leopard so biting the hand that feeds you maybe

The delivered on bottoms is a valid point alright and a big part of their marketing but its getting less and less valid as these designs become more and more floating gin palace like.

Each to their own though and thats what CF is for. i think we can both agree that earlier leopard designs were more bluewater capable than the current crop yes?
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 19:20   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2014
Boat: Shopping
Posts: 426
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

Here's Leopard talking about its forward cockpit designs:

"After 3 years of production, and well over a hundred Leopard 44s sailing the 7 seas, the facts speak for themselves: the Leopard 44 is a sound vessel, with an immensely safe and functional forward cockpit, that has already been duplicated on the larger Leopard models as well."

"The first opportunity Leopard had to gain official support for this new design feature was when manufacturer Robertson & Caine applied for certification of the Leopard 44 by the North American and European agencies.
Upon detailed inspection of the design, and the build practices employed in producing the Leopard 44, both the International Marine Certification Institute (IMCI) and the National Marine Manufacturers Association confirmed she was built to the high standards set forth by International Standards Organization (ISO) and the American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC).
Understanding that the yachts were now rated and certified for offshore passage making, it was time to bring this new catamaran with the forward cockpit to our customers.

Leopard 44 Forward Cockpit Drainage Rate vs Requirements
Organization

International Organization for Standardization American Boat & Yacht Council
Required Drainage Rate
90% of volume in a maximum of 5 minutes 75% of volume in a maximum of 90 seconds

Leopard 44 forward cockpit drains 100% in 45 seconds"
__________________
Cottontop is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 19:29   #27
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cottontop View Post
Here's Leopard talking about its forward cockpit designs:

"After 3 years of production, and well over a hundred Leopard 44s sailing the 7 seas, the facts speak for themselves: the Leopard 44 is a sound vessel, with an immensely safe and functional forward cockpit, that has already been duplicated on the larger Leopard models as well."

"The first opportunity Leopard had to gain official support for this new design feature was when manufacturer Robertson & Caine applied for certification of the Leopard 44 by the North American and European agencies.
Upon detailed inspection of the design, and the build practices employed in producing the Leopard 44, both the International Marine Certification Institute (IMCI) and the National Marine Manufacturers Association confirmed she was built to the high standards set forth by International Standards Organization (ISO) and the American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC).
Understanding that the yachts were now rated and certified for offshore passage making, it was time to bring this new catamaran with the forward cockpit to our customers.

Leopard 44 Forward Cockpit Drainage Rate vs Requirements
Organization

International Organization for Standardization American Boat & Yacht Council
Required Drainage Rate
90% of volume in a maximum of 5 minutes 75% of volume in a maximum of 90 seconds

Leopard 44 forward cockpit drains 100% in 45 seconds"
thanks informative post but Im gonna go out on a limb here and say that there are not "well over 100 44s sailing the 7 seas". The vast majority would be in charter in the the usual charter hubs - very different. Personally I havnt seen a privately owned 44 yet out of perhaps a dozen sighted in the med.

If thats what you want then go for it but just recognise its a compromise just like everything else in a boat design.
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 19:33   #28
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: St Augustine, FL
Boat: Woods Vardo 34 Cat
Posts: 2,839
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

That drain standard seems awfully slow. What's a typical wave interval?

Anyhow, I'm not biased against the front cockpit deal as long as it's a VERY strong custom hatch. I also think the 46 is a very nice boat and dan personally confirm it sails quite well.
__________________
Check out my MoJo: Facebook.com/mojomarine1
Boatguy30 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 19:45   #29
Registered User
 
Barra's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Western Australia
Boat: between boats
Posts: 808
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boatguy30 View Post
That drain standard seems awfully slow. What's a typical wave interval?

Anyhow, I'm not biased against the front cockpit deal as long as it's a VERY strong custom hatch. I also think the 46 is a very nice boat and dan personally confirm it sails quite well.
Yeah I thought so too - the greenies we had in the cyclades this year were wind and wave against current and around 9 to 10 sec intervals - the drain wouldnt have done much at all - only a course change - but on this particular occasion we were 150 odd meters to a lee shore rounding an island so I wouldnt want to be forced into a course change due to a suddenly large bucket of water forward.

inexperienced crew at the helm or AP would present similar problems. Of course im talking about sailing to wind here in 25 plus knots though so not that common an occurance in the charter fleet maybe.
__________________
Barra is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-11-2015, 20:05   #30
Senior Cruiser
 
jackdale's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Calgary, AB, Canada
Posts: 5,048
Images: 1
Re: Considering Purchase of New Leopard 40

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barra View Post
Personally I havnt seen a privately owned 44 yet out of perhaps a dozen sighted in the med.
I just sailed one from Cape Town to Fernando de Noronha, Brazil - 3500 miles. The owner took it from there to Trinidad / Tobago.

A couple of Sunsail 444s were getting ready for delivery on their bottoms - one for Thailand.
__________________

__________________
ISPA Yachtmaster Ocean Instructor Evaluator
Sail Canada Advanced Cruising Instructor
IYT Yachtmaster Coastal Instructor
ASA 201, 203,204, 205, 206, 214
As I sail, I praise God, and care not. (Luke Foxe)
jackdale is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
leopard, leopard 40, purchase

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Considering purchase of Manta 42 playasf Multihull Sailboats 6 15-07-2015 09:48
Pearson 30 advice - considering purchase of 1973 boat with an Atomic 4 Donald Small Monohull Sailboats 4 14-06-2012 22:55
New - Considering Purchase joefran4 Meets & Greets 2 20-10-2011 14:12
Whispergen - Considering Purchase svfortunate1 Electrical: Batteries, Generators & Solar 2 22-10-2009 07:27
Hi everyone -considering purchase cpmatthews Meets & Greets 2 18-05-2009 19:07



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 22:57.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.