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Old 14-11-2007, 12:57   #1
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Considering a Privilege

Hi

I have been looking to purchase a catamaran in the UK.

After looking at a few boats the best I have seen for
my needs and budget are a Privilege 37 and a 39.

Also seen a very good condition Prout 37, but not sure
if this boat is as strongly built as the Privilege ?

If there are any owners of these boats out their, I could
certainly do with some advice about how they sail etc.
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Old 14-11-2007, 13:08   #2
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Have look at Welcoming to Maxing Out, a 33,000 miles around the word on a privilege 39 and very interesting logs.
I posted a thread a few weeks ago about privilege vs prout manta 38 and some answers can be of interest for you
good luck for your research
Robert
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Old 14-11-2007, 13:23   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson'sGrandson View Post
Hi

I have been looking to purchase a catamaran in the UK.

After looking at a few boats the best I have seen for
my needs and budget are a Privilege 37 and a 39.

Also seen a very good condition Prout 37, but not sure
if this boat is as strongly built as the Privilege ?

If there are any owners of these boats out their, I could
certainly do with some advice about how they sail etc.
Privilege is a much higher-tech build than an old Prout 37. Probably stronger and definitely lighter as a result. If you haven't already done so then have a talk to Bill Bullimore at Patrick Boyd Multihulls. He's been the UK Privilege agent for a number of years... Catamarans for Sale. Trimarans for Sale. Multihulls For Sale. Used Catamarans. Multihull Brokerage. New Catamarans: Privilege, Gemini and Telstar. From PBM Ltd. He has a nice 36 (I'm sure it is actually a 37) available in Ireland and a 39 up in Scotland at the moment.
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Old 16-11-2007, 09:23   #4
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I have been in the boat building business for a long time and have looked at many cats and I can say that Privilege cats are consistantly build good , they are very heavy and slow sailors but the construction is good and you can take these around the world. The Prouts however have been built by various builders and some did not take the building to serious so watch out. another problem is the lenght width ratio around 1 : 44 while most modern catamarans have 1 : 54 to 58 % giving them more space and stability sideways.
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Old 16-11-2007, 12:02   #5
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Quote:
they are very heavy and slow sailors
You are either talking about the previous range of Privilege or just talking out of your backside.

Yes they may be heavy compared to a Fastcat but the Privilege 445 is 19000 lbs complete blue water spec including a generator whereas a Lagoon 440 is 26000.

The Privilege range uses Divinycell foam core in the hulls and also uses the same material sandwiched in the interior woodwork to keep weight down and strength up.

The 445 also has the same sail area as the Lagoon so is unlikely to be slow, not as fast as a Fastcat of course, but hardly slow!!
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Old 16-11-2007, 12:51   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeannius View Post
You are either talking about the previous range of Privilege or just talking out of your backside.

Yes they may be heavy compared to a Fastcat but the Privilege 445 is 19000 lbs complete blue water spec including a generator whereas a Lagoon 440 is 26000.

The Privilege range uses Divinycell foam core in the hulls and also uses the same material sandwiched in the interior woodwork to keep weight down and strength up.

The 445 also has the same sail area as the Lagoon so is unlikely to be slow, not as fast as a Fastcat of course, but hardly slow!!
A empty 445 according to the webside weights 20.000 but I recently noticed a almost new 395 being lifted out of the water at 22.000 so I think they do not have their weights right. and yes they are slow cats but as said before : a good quality. I have sailed many privileges in the past and getting 75 % of wind speed is a real effort , I am not putting Privilege down on the contrary I think is is one of the best build French cats maybe in the same quality as Catana but still heavy , if sailed from one island to another in the caribean that is fine , 80 % end up directly in a charter fleet so there is nothing wrong with that but they are still slow
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Old 18-11-2007, 01:16   #7
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A empty 445 according to the webside weights 20.000 but I recently noticed a almost new 395 being lifted out of the water at 22.000 so I think they do not have their weights right. and yes they are slow cats but as said before : a good quality. I have sailed many privileges in the past and getting 75 % of wind speed is a real effort , I am not putting Privilege down on the contrary I think is is one of the best build French cats maybe in the same quality as Catana but still heavy , if sailed from one island to another in the caribean that is fine , 80 % end up directly in a charter fleet so there is nothing wrong with that but they are still slow
I said 19000, you say 20000, the website says 19620. Either way the difference is just noise.

So, given that the manufacturing methods of Privilege and Fastcat are to all intents and purposes identical.... Hi tech vacuum bagged Divinycell foam cored hulls with carbon as and where appropriate and that the size of a Priv 435 and a Fastcat 435 are more or less identical...

How come a Fastcat is around 5000 lbs lighter? Either the build is not as substantial or the specification is very basic. I imagine your weight figures don't include a generator, watermaker or charger/inverter since they don't appear to be in your 'standard' specification. Indeed a freezer is marked as an option so I don't imagine that is included in your weight calculation either?

I bet that by the time a Fastcat is brought up to what I consider Bluewater Spec then there'll be very little difference between the displacement of the two boats. If there is still a difference then I'd have to seriously question the strength of the boat. As your own polar shows, there's not that much difference in the speed potential of the two by the time Fastcat gets to the 20000 mark.

Don't get me wrong here... The Fastcat looks like a great boat but you are trying to sell them, they have little track-record - so who knows how well they'll last - so I'll continue to challenge your statements while I believe you are telling less than the full story.

Finally... Most Privileges aren't charter boats. There are maybe 4 in the BVI compared to hundreds of Lagoons and Fountaine Pajots. Most Privileges are used as long term cruising boats, just as mine will be from next year onwards.
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Old 18-11-2007, 01:37   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson'sGrandson View Post
Hi

I have been looking to purchase a catamaran in the UK.

After looking at a few boats the best I have seen for
my needs and budget are a Privilege 37 and a 39.

Also seen a very good condition Prout 37, but not sure
if this boat is as strongly built as the Privilege ?

If there are any owners of these boats out their, I could
certainly do with some advice about how they sail etc.
we have a year2000 37' so it will depend what age you are looking for as there have been meny changes over the years of production it wont be a new one as they dont make under 40' any more
but you do need to ask questions as we are not going to give you a life history so what do you want to know
i am shure you have read the threds on the privilege we have started and all the stuff comparing priv's to other boats.
we are in brighton so if you are in this area pm me and come see us for a chat
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Old 18-11-2007, 05:01   #9
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A FastCat 435 weights 6250 kilo or 13750 lbs ready to sail the oceans with all sails including 3 different size gennakers watermaker generator electric propulsion etc etc see our all included bleu water equipment list below. the freezer mentioned by you is the second freezer the first one is standard. no I am not trying to sell a Fastcat 435 we are sold out until the end of 2010 the way a fastcat is produced is different from a Privilege , a privilege uses vacuum bagging and Gell coat while we resin infuse Epoxy resin and the complete boat is spray painted in Awl grip 2 K paint , that alone saves 2200 lbs over a Privilege with gell coat outside and flow coat inside. We further use the twaron impact protection system that saves another 800 lbs and we use a lot of carbon and basalt fibre instead of all glass. The interior is made with Nomex honeycomb.
All this ads to cost but the weight is 10000 lbs less for a comparable sized cat equipped the same way as a privilege . do not forget that the 20000 LBS of a privilege 445 excludes a watermaker , generator etc etc you have to ad at least 3500 lbs to come to the same equipment level as a FastCat 435
That is a big difference but than a FastCat is also more expensive than a 445.
A fully equipped 435 costs around Euro 650.000,00 bleuwater equipped
this is our bleu water equipment list , that is over and above the standard equipment
Sterling fast charger
Air Breeze wind generator masthead mounted 300 watt 24 volts
LCD TV screen connected to radar screen for large picture 26 inch
Dolby surround system multi system for world wide use
Multi region tv/fm antenna with mast bracket suitable for digital TV
Capi2 power distribution system
Active radar deflector detector (Rasmus 1)
Raymarine E series GPS/plotter, radar 8" and 12 " color + interface to LCD screen
Watermaker 60 liters or 16 gallons per hour 24 volts manual
Victron 3000/100 inverter / charger .
11 Kw DC generator for electric propulsion system
dual airconditioning system
Mobilert active overboard alarm system for 6 people type 7600
Davits aluminium with lines and blocks
Debug for engines or generator (against algae in diesel)
Autopilot self learning Raymarine 8002 +
Floscan digital fuel flow meter with total consumed diesel
1 x Solar panel 210 watt .

safety
Book Doctor on board
First Aid Kit (Extensive)
Outboard 2,3 hp 4 cycle
AIS system to monitor other shipping around
8 fenders 8 mooring lines 4 mooring lubbers
Lightweight rigid inflatable 10 ft long 4-5 persons
Safety outfit lifejackets safety harnesses life lines
Spare anchor (Rocna)15 kilos plus 10 meters chain and 50 meters line
Anchor bridle with stainless steel connecting plate
Life raft light weight for 6/8 pax
sails


Gennaker with lines and blocks 135 M2
Gennaker with lines and blocks 95 M2
removable bowprod with spectra waterstays 80 m2
Storm Jib with Velcro connection
Sea anchor/Drogue (for heavy winds)
kitchen


Side by side fridge freezer 200 L.
Freezer 50 gallons w. cooled in saloon seat
Extra gastank composite
Polycarbonate glasses 24 x
Nespresso coffee machine by Magimix
Dualit Toaster
Kitchen machine
Hardwood cutting board installed above dish rack
Light weight washing machine ( 3 K . )
Light weight set Dinnerware for 8
Nesting Pots and Pans (6)
Kitchenware including stainless steel knife set etc.
Set of cutlery for 8
Set of towels with name of boat embroidered
comfort


Nicro Fico solar vents 4 x
Strida folding bikes lightweight 2 x
3 sided outside cockpit enclosure with windows
Fitted cotton sheets for the beds 8 pieces 900 mm x 2200 mm
Comforters with covers for each bed
Pillows with pillow cases
Fitted cotton undersheets 4 x
Solar shades mounted on the outside of saloon
Outside matrasses 2 x 60 x 2.10 meters
Lexan scratch resistant, solarized,self cleaning windows
Lexan scratch resistant,portholes and hatches
Upgrade water tanks 700 litres total
Upgrade diesel tanks 600 litres total
Holders for 3 diving bottles

greetings

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Old 18-11-2007, 08:22   #10
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Don't get me wrong here... The Fastcat looks like a great boat but you are trying to sell them, they have little track-record - so who knows how well they'll last - so I'll continue to challenge your statements while I believe you are telling less than the full story.
Well said Jeannius! While overall it's good to have to have vendors contributing, there's a fine line between providing general and generic useful information versus spamming every topic to try and sell something.

Now, let's let this go back on topic, which was about Privilege...
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Old 18-11-2007, 08:38   #11
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spamming mail

The question came about Privilege I recall and all I have said that the Privilege is a good cat well constructed ( in my opinion the best constructed French cat)and built but on the heavy side
You can hardly call that spamming , besides I am not only a builder but a Catamaran sailor with 45 years of catamaran sailing experience and well over 350.000 NM on the clock I guess I am one of the few builders around that actually gets some sailing done , this is also the reason why we keep on improving our yachts , we are not a high volume builder and therefore it is possible to make changes if they improve a boat

P.S. I am not trying to sell we are sold out for over 3 years
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Old 18-11-2007, 08:57   #12
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Wow, a cat fight and I'm not involved. I will defend Fastcat, he stays on subject and answers with emperical data. The fact that he build boats is a plus not a minus.

As I read the thread, Fastcat said they (Privlages)are nice well built boats that are on the heavy side. Maxing out wrote about sailing at a very comfortable 4.5 knots and enjoying his Privlage when others were having dificulty sailing too fast.

Why the angst?
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Old 18-11-2007, 09:06   #13
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Do not Worry Joli it is not a fight , I was under the impression that the forum was about asking questions or opinions and getting answers and I have sailed lots of Privileges from around 20 years ago until recently and again they are good and well build I would actually trust my life on one making a ocean crossing and there are many cats where I would not do that ( no do not ask me which ones ) that would be nasty
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Old 18-11-2007, 09:22   #14
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This is mail for Jeannius abouth our building method very different from a hand laminated Catamaran even if they are vacuum bagged , with a hand laminated boat all glass , foam etc are put in to the mould wet and to gleu the foam in place bonding past is used , in case of a Privilege probably around 600 kilo .
With the vacuum infusion principle all that hand work is done with dry glass carbon foam kevlar basalt etc and than the complete hull or deck or any other part in the boat is set under vacuum for 24 hours and than we open a couple of valves and the resin gets sucked in , that way we get a resin to glass ratio of 40 to 60 % while with hand lamination it is more like 70 to 30 % or double the amount of resin.
We use 1400 kilos of epoxy resin in a FastCat 435 and i am sure that for the Privilege 445 it is more than double and probably closer to triple so lets say for the argument since I do not know their exact figures 3000 kilo,s of resin plus 600 kilo of bonding past and 1000 kilo of gellcoat and flow coat and we have a diffrence here of 4600 kilo
or 10000 lbs now ad the saving we get from using Nomex honeycomb panels , not using solid marine ply cabinet doors , using lots of kevlar , carbon and basalt fiber and the difference is now well over 12000 lbs .
Believe me it is lots or work to build this way , every part in the boat is resin infused from the seats outside on the pushpit and pull pit to the freezer inside , the bimini is made from carbon fiber
Below you find the advantages of the Vektor K building method and the disadvantage.

The Vector-K infusion technique advantages
1: The resin vacuum infusion saves at least 30 % weight.
2: Epoxy resin is at least 30 % stronger and can take more flexing.
3: The hull, deck and bulkheads are laminated together with kevlar for a stiffer stronger hull.
4: No out gassing of styrene so there is no smell in the boat.
5: Higher bridgedeck clearance, 3 inches for the 305 and 5 inches for the 435
6: The payload is over 50 % higher.
7: No osmosis because it is built from epoxy resin
8: Kevlar impact resistance system up top 40 cm above waterline
9: Less maintenance work
10: No gel coat blistering, there are now hollow spots since we vacuum infuse the epoxy
12: Higher cruising and top speed both for sailing and motoring
13: Higher pointing, 90 degrees tack angle
14: More standing height (around 1 inch)
15: No water absorption of the laminate
16: Coppercoat is the anti Fouling is guaranteed for 5 years and works up to 10 years.
17:Higher resale value.
18: No gel coat cracks. (We spray paint the whole boat in 2 components Polyurethane)
19: The buoyancy factor is 50 % higher (because of the lower boat weight)
20: More economical to run on engines (the drag is lower due to decreased weight)
21: Less waste for production and no health hazard for boat builders.
we do not sand the boat and use very limited filler
22: Easier to repair both the epoxy laminate and the paint after damage.
23: the complete boat is postcured at 80 degrees C. for 8 hours to get to the maximum strenght.

The disadvantages of the Vector-K infusion technique
1: Higher production cost because of more labour and higher cost of materials
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Old 11-10-2008, 13:18   #15
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A empty 445 according to the webside weights 20.000 but I recently noticed a almost new 395 being lifted out of the water at 22.000 so I think they do not have their weights right. and yes they are slow cats but as said before : a good quality. I have sailed many privileges in the past and getting 75 % of wind speed is a real effort , I am not putting Privilege down on the contrary I think is is one of the best build French cats maybe in the same quality as Catana but still heavy , if sailed from one island to another in the caribean that is fine , 80 % end up directly in a charter fleet so there is nothing wrong with that but they are still slow
And a very lightly built using the most modern technology and super weight saving devices for the Fastcat 455 only weighs:
As below, not my words!!
Butterfly got weighed
Today Butterfly ( a Fastcat 455 ) got weighed.
With empty water and dieseltanks and without the extra
sails ( only main and jib on board ) the final figure is 8600 kg.( 18959 lbs )
So with a complet set of cruising gear and full tanks one can state that
a Fastcat 455 weighs about 10 tonnes ( 22046 lbs )

Koen
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