Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 17-12-2018, 14:23   #16
Registered User
 
Mark424's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Boat: Maine Cat 38
Posts: 262
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
Yeah. And thinkers are gonna think.
I'm missing the "thinking".....

Quote:
Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
That's interesting. I suppose some people consider 10 years (i.e., Seawind) to be a long time in the 'tough and fast blue-water cruising cat' business.
On first page of SeawindCats.com it says "35 years experience in building the highest quality multihulls, charter boats and cruising yachts, which have been exported all around the world"

I seem to recall they were built in Australia for the first 25 years but were forced to move to Vietman around ~2008 when the banks and governments crushed the economy. Kudos to Richard Ward for persisting through extremely difficult circumstances. It must be a labor of love, and we all benefit from a unique product that is not a me too condo cat. And 200 people get to have jobs that help support their families. Worthy of telling a few people about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
As I mentioned above, advertising is an art.

Personally, I don't need to be told by Cruising World - or anyone else - what the "best boat under 50 feet" is. Or over 50 feet, for that matter. Or any size, for that matter.

....

Before this thread, I had never before heard of Seawind, nor Corsair Marine
If you'd never heard of them, then I guess you do need Cruising World to inform you of products on the market. Mission accomplished.

...but I'm "just thinking"....
__________________

Mark424 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2018, 14:34   #17
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 878
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark424 View Post
I'm missing the "thinking".....
I miss it too. These days, it seems to have sailed off, somewhere. But hey, as you mentioned, let's blame offshoring on "the banks" and "the governments" crushing the economies.

Hmmm, and yes, I'm just still thinking, but I wonder what it ACTUALLY costs to build "fine world-class yachts" in Vietnam. A question of the ages for the ocean-going sages.

Wasn't something just signed in North Africa to bring "talented boat craftsmen" into France .... and other countries? Maybe the price of new AMELs will now go down? Or the reverse, maybe?
__________________

PortClydeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2018, 15:33   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
LeeV's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Md
Boat: Searching for our Catamaran
Posts: 902
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
........snip..........

Personally, I don't need to be told by Cruising World - or anyone else - what the "best boat under 50 feet" is. Or over 50 feet, for that matter. Or any size, for that matter.

............more snip............

Before this thread, I had never before heard of Seawind, nor Corsair Marine.
Cruising World didnít do the review because they felt you needed to be told anything. They reviewed the boats in their opinions and handed out rewards. I wouldnít scoff at the ball/music/art coach who gave you an award for something they felt you did well, even if I donít need to be told about it.

This thread was to congratulate Seawind. If you donít like Cruising World, contests, Vietnam Nam (and Iím a VN vet), or Seawind cats, donít change the thread on a personal rant about advertising; start a new thread of your own - especially if youíd never heard of Seawind before this thread! Pretty odd considering youíre in the Multihulls forum.

Respectfully,
__________________
LeeV
Searching for our retirement cat
LeeV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2018, 15:43   #19
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 4,231
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
I miss it too. These days, it seems to have sailed off, somewhere. But hey, as you mentioned, let's blame offshoring on "the banks" and "the governments" crushing the economies.

Hmmm, and yes, I'm just still thinking, but I wonder what it ACTUALLY costs to build "fine world-class yachts" in Vietnam. A question of the ages for the ocean-going sages.

Wasn't something just signed in North Africa to bring "talented boat craftsmen" into France .... and other countries? Maybe the price of new AMELs will now go down? Or the reverse, maybe?


What the heck is an AMEL?
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2018, 15:51   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Port Aransas, Texas
Boat: 2019 Seawind 1160 Lite, Previous 2002 Seawind 1000
Posts: 1,283
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

I think the Seawind factory actually employs about 300 workers. There is much more of a boat-building industry there than I expected, and Seawind has to assure wages are competitive to retain the employees. I also don't think quoting average wages for a country is any reflection on what skilled craftsmen (and women) are paid. And "offshoring" is a relative term. The majority of boats that Seawind produced in Australia were exported, no different than what is happening in Vietnam. Same for South African boat builders, etc. When production costs in Australia (Seawind) and California (Corsair) got so expensive the company couldn't compete, the choice seemed pretty straightforward, I suspect.

Finally, my wife and I spent ten days touring Vietnam when we visited the factory. We found the people very friendly, the countryside beautiful, and yes, the goods and services were cheap. I know why so many Aussie friends vacation there - albeit they have a relatively-short flight vs our 28-32 hour collection of flights and layovers!
sailjumanji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2018, 16:47   #21
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: on board, Australia
Boat: 11meter Power catamaran
Posts: 3,671
Images: 3
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
As I mentioned above, advertising is an art.


Before this thread, I had never before heard of Seawind, nor Corsair Marine. I had heard of Wal-Mart, and business "offshoring" (hahahaha).

Congratulations. Advertising is an art form.
Explains everything really
downunder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2018, 16:51   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
LeeV's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Md
Boat: Searching for our Catamaran
Posts: 902
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by smj View Post
What the heck is an AMEL?
The Amel 50 is a beautiful, very expensive and incredible sailing monohull - one of the premier monos out there. Iím strictly a multi person but Amel is a beauty.
LeeV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2018, 17:02   #23
smj
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Searunner 38 catamaran
Posts: 4,231
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeV View Post
The Amel 50 is a beautiful, very expensive and incredible sailing monohull - one of the premier monos out there. Iím strictly a multi person but Amel is a beauty.


My comment was actually made tongue in cheek as we easily out-sailed an AMEL 51 in our little 33í Seawind 1000.
smj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2018, 17:56   #24
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,345
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

[QUOTE=PortClydeMe;2782879]
Quote:
Yeah. And thinkers are gonna think.

I read this: "Founded in Australia, and now building its boats in Vietnam, Seawind Catamarans has long been known for its tough, fast bluewater cruising cats."

That's interesting. I suppose some people consider 10 years (i.e., Seawind) to be a long time in the 'tough and fast blue-water cruising cat' business.
Seawind have been building multihulls for 35 years, all with the same ownership, and with stable management. The 5 top people at the Vietnam factory were all at the Australian factory, moved there with the relocation. The guy that built the first 1160 is still the guy building the 1160 lites now.

Quote:
Also of interest (to me, anyway), Corsair Marine (the parent company) was founded in California by the son of Sam Walton (Wal-Mart discount stores).
Yeah nah. Ostac in Brisbane Australia founded the Corsair brand to build farrier tris and Chamberlain Cats. They moved to California with an injection of Walton family capital, they then moved to Vietnam and established a fairly high end manufacturing plant there. Seawind bought Corsair and it made sense to relocate production to the one facility that already had a good trained workforce doing high end composite manufacturing. It also made sense to move to a place that encouraged business rather than the oppressive business regime in Australia. And Seawind is the parent company - not Corsair.

Quote:
Moreover, I read that "The boat’s modular composite furniture also serves to stiffen the boat’s overall vinylester-infused structure." Interesting
. As others have said the 3 internal furniture modules are resin infused vacuum bagged and form an integral part of the whole boat, not simply furniture added in. Its why their 10 year old boats dont squeak. Its why they have been able to drive down weight whilst increasing strength.

Quote:
In regard to construction, Vietnam was chosen for, among other reasons, " ... its pool of talented labour." Hmmm, that's interesting. In Vietnam, minimum wage rose to 1,390,000 VND (US $61.00) per month in 2018.
Labour is a small part of the boat cost. Particularly given the way the boat is built. The masts come from All yacht Spars in Australia, the electronics is B&G (UK) the deck gear is Lewmar (UK with Norwegian ownership). The sails are Doyle. (US). The electrics are Mastervolt (Europe USA and NZ - Headquarters in Netherlands). Those things cost the same whether you build in Vietnam Australia or USA or Greenland.

The biggest reason for building in Vietnam is that the government there actually encourages business. I heard the GM of Seawind mention that in Australia he spent 80% of his time dealing with Government and 20% building boats. In vietnam it is reversed.

And if you think a communist country is going to let workers be exploited by foreign companies then you're smoking some good stuff.
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2018, 20:42   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 878
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeV View Post
Cruising World didnít ... snip ... They ... snip ... I wouldnít ... snip

This thread was to ... snip If ... snip.

Respectfully,
Thanks for posting your insights. Some readers here will maybe appreciate them.

Most respectfully
PortClydeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2018, 20:59   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 878
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

[QUOTE=Factor;2783344]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
The biggest reason for building in Vietnam is that the government there actually encourages business.
Au contraire, mon ami. Labor IS a big cost, and I highly suspect the primary reason for the relocation. If not, Levi's would still be made in America. The same with tennis shoes, etc., etc., etc. If you can't cut the cost of materials, cut the labor cost. It's biz 101. Why do you think Europe has been importing labor, by the millions? Needed spiritual diversity? Global enlightenment? Maybe "Macaroon" (haha) will become tired of all the yellow vests running around Paris, and subsequently send all the French cat builders to Nam. I mean, heck, they sure have a long history there -- and as you stated, they are "encouraging business".

I'm sure it has NOTHING to do with the $61.00-per-month (2018) labor costs. (cough)

By the way, America is now once-again encouraging manufacturing stateside. It's such an odd thing, at least for the next two years. One can only pray for an extension.
PortClydeMe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2018, 21:09   #27
UFO
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Perth
Boat: UFO 34
Posts: 242
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

They recently had a Mini Boat Show at my sailing club and there was a Seawind 1260 and a Lucia 40 - I've gotta say as far as comfort, space and layout goes, there is no competition, the Lucia blows it away. I'm pretty certain that once you get out on the water the exact opposite is true.


Its horses for courses
UFO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2018, 21:38   #28
Marine Service Provider
 
Factor's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Corsair Dash MKII
Posts: 4,345
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PortClydeMe View Post
Au contraire, mon ami. Labor IS a big cost, and I highly suspect the primary reason for the relocation.
You suspect wrong
Quote:
If not, Levi's would still be made in America. The same with tennis shoes, etc., etc., etc. If you can't cut the cost of materials, cut the labor cost.
Yeah cause apair of Jeans is just like a boat.
Quote:
By the way, America is now once-again encouraging manufacturing stateside. It's such an odd thing, at least for the next two years. One can only pray for an extension.
I really have little interest in politics in my own country, certainly have no interest in USA politics.
Factor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18-12-2018, 12:15   #29
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 867
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

I really love the 1260 design! However, I doubt that Tim, Bill, and Ed (the judging staff at CW) have spent much time with someone who insists on galley-up, like I have. (Think: "Nobody puts baby in the corner.") They were clearly swayed by sailing capability, like I would be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Factor View Post
Labour is a small part of the boat cost. Particularly given the way the boat is built.
I don't have a horse in this race, but I think this statement is problematic.
The cost of 55 ft mono (roughly labor of a 42' cat?) might be about 50/50 (materials/labor) if built in Western countries according to sites like this:
https://stephenswaring.com/marine-en...what-it-costs/

Seawind reportedly saved US$77K on the price of the 1160 by moving production to Vietnam, and they looked to be going under without such a move.
Honestly, I use an iPhone and an iPad without thinking of the plight of the Chinese workers who actually assembled the stuff at Apple's Foxconn, in bad very conditions. I suppose I should show more empathy, but I'm a typical Western consumer. Guilty.
Anyway, reports from a couple years back have it that Seawind's Vietnamese employees are well treated, complying to rules of an actual labor union. Outsourcing helped to create a trillion dollar company on one hand and helped to keep a boat company afloat on the other.
Who am I to hold Seawind to a higher standard than Apple?
cyan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-12-2018, 12:24   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 229
Re: Congrats to Seawind.

The Seawind 1260 was my wife and I's favorite boat at Annapolis.

No other boat under 50' (that we saw) offers as much lounging space in the salon. Very few boats seem to accommodate the idea of a "family movie night", with the TV position in many Lagoons and FP boats requiring some seating positions to look back over their shoulder to see what's going on. The 1260 isn't perfect, but it's much better than most in this regard.

The salon desk is also great. A real functional place you could do actual work. A pop-up, adjustable seat-back might be appreciated, but besides that it's about perfect to me.

The 1260 has the best ventilation of any boat we visited. The salon ventilation is equal or better than boats like the Bali 4.1 or 4.3, but the hull ventilation was miles better. Air needs a reason to travel a path. Seawind seems to get this.

Natural light in the hulls is amazing. No other boat we saw came close. This seems to be the case with all Tony Grainger designs (Lightwave, Perry, customs), but Seawind really took it to the next level by lowering the windows to provide a view as well as light. I'm not sure who was responsible for that decision, but it was a good one.

There's no more protected or sociable helm position than on the 1260.

The space in the cockpit is extremely generous, and not just for a 40' boat. Seating area is fairly typical of boats in this size, but the deck area definitely isn't.

The sail-bag is the most accessible and easy to work with on any boat we saw.

I really like the winch locations. Not a huge fan of the after-center winches on some other similar niche boats (the Catana 42 for example). It's aesthetic more than anything else.

The forward seating area behind the trampolines is nicely moulded. The Astrea 42 was best-in-show here for us, but the 1260 is better than most and doesn't give up much.

The self-tacking jib, additional furling headsail and bow-sprit are obviously welcome additions. It all seemed very well thought out.

The owner's cabin and head were outstanding and much nicer than on similarly sized boats IMO. Same for the guest cabin. The aft cabin was really tight, but I think it could work for children or short term guests.

The electronics and control systems were all top-notch.

The Seawinds were some of the few boats at the show that didn't creak noticeably with every step.

The shower was one of the better ones at the show. A good size. A built in bench. A foot step so the ladies can shave their legs easily. My wife pointed that one out and you'd be surprised how few boats at the show made that small concession.

For a 41' boat the galley is outstanding. Better than most boats at any size. Well ventilated. Sociable. Organized, with a ton of space. In fact, the only one that came close for me was the Nautitech 542. We didn't visit the Catana though which I suspect is equally as nice given the galleys on some of the 42s. The only criticism is it didn't have an overwhelming amount of cold storage. But it was definitely serviceable. I might add an ice-maker or refrigerated cooler in the cockpit and that'd set us nicely I think.

On the downside:

Not a big fan of the outdoor grill on gas struts. Having a flat top table you could mount whatever grill on there without the fiberglass lid/cavity would be my preference. Same for the sink side. Get rid of the lid. Add a drawer or door where the lower lid hinge is.

An outboard powered 1260 could be really interesting.

If they mounted the davit-mounted solar panels longitudinally they could put twice as much solar there easily. They could also stand to add twice as much solar to the cockpit/salon top.

Some caulk lines at panel seems were a bit sloppy, but that's an easy fix. Quality wise it seemed generally a big step up from most boats.

Walking around the shrouds was a pain. No real way around that criticism. It just kinda is what it is. You win some, you lose some.

The curved side/forward decks made finding your footing a bit of a challenge. It was noticeable, but not so bad I didn't feel like it was something you could acclimate to so it's a bit of a toss-up for me. Flat would be my preference, but if the designer believes there's structural or functional advantages to the curved decks I'd just take their word for it and leave it at that.

There aren't a lot of great places for a "laundry room". Perhaps in the cabinet behind the electrics panel.

I'm not sure if it's just videos or not, but the engines seem very noisy in the cockpit. And I didn't notice any insulation in the port engine bay. There's probably something under the bed in the starboard I'd guess, but this boat could really benefit from Torqeedo's electric pod drives I think.

The forward starboard head seems a bit of a waste. I like the idea of using that for laundry/tools/bulky-storage (cushions) instead, but I think the head is standard on the 1260 (optional on the 1160).

That about covers the highlights I think. Overall there's very little we didn't love about the boat. It was the best-in-show for us by a huge margin. Of any boat at any size that we visited (50' generally being the largest, but we did tour the 542 just to see it in person). The only downside for us is the price. It's at a bit of a premium compared to the French boats. Not a huge premium. But it does stretch the budget for us.

I also have to wonder if French/South African/Asian builders are paying ridiculous importation duties on generators? I can't make sense of their pricing otherwise. There's just no way labor doubles the price of a generator installation before the boat is even on the water. But that seems to be across the board.
__________________

ssmoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
Seawind, wind

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Do I Get an Award, or a Medal or Just a 'Congrats' kcmarcet General Sailing Forum 13 18-11-2009 09:58



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:08.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.