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Old 06-03-2016, 08:49   #1
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Concerns About Bulkhead Crack in 2009 Lagoon 420 O/V

I recently paid for a survey of a Lagoon 420 Owners version and found the boat to be absolutely consistent with what I want.

From the survey there were a few minor problems that seem to be readily remedied and don't represent a big concern. There was one issue however that has my wondering about what I might do to get more information and/or ideas about how to approach the problem.

The issue is a separated bulkhead that can be seen under the owners bathroom sink. Apparently this has been identified as a known issue on the 2009 Lagoon 420s from what my surveyor said. He mentioned that the problem has been seen on several Lagoons of this vintage and that, yes, its a problem, but it's generally considered benign.

So I sent the surveyor and both brokers the following list of questions I'd like answered before signing off on acceptance of the boat As Is:

How much risk am I assuming in accepting a boat with a known crack in the bulkhead?

What is the worst case with this problem? How would or could it advance?

Does the existence of this crack impose a limitation on the way the boat could or should be sailed? In other words does it mean I need to sail “gently” not to perturb the problem?

What is the approximate cost of a full remedy?

Are there alternate repairs that could provide the same strength?

How does this type of flaw impact resale later if the problem is stable?

How does this type of flaw impact resale later if the problem escalates?

How does this flaw in it’s current condition impact insurance rates on the boat?

How do insurance underwriters view such a flaw? Does it impact rates? Are they prone to put an exclusion rider on the policy?

Is it required that I disclose this flaw to the insurance underwriters or risk invalidating coverage?

Has there been another surveyor who identified the flaw and deemed it benign or inconsequential?


What I'd like to put out to the fine folk of CF is their take on this matter. Does anyone have direct experience with this boat or her sisters?

Thanks in advance!!
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Old 06-03-2016, 09:06   #2
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Re: Concerns About Bulkhead Crack in 2009 Lagoon 420 O/V

Quote:
Originally Posted by psychfeld View Post
I recently paid for a survey of a Lagoon 420 Owners version and found the boat to be absolutely consistent with what I want.

From the survey there were a few minor problems that seem to be readily remedied and don't represent a big concern. There was one issue however that has my wondering about what I might do to get more information and/or ideas about how to approach the problem.

The issue is a separated bulkhead that can be seen under the owners bathroom sink. Apparently this has been identified as a known issue on the 2009 Lagoon 420s from what my surveyor said. He mentioned that the problem has been seen on several Lagoons of this vintage and that, yes, its a problem, but it's generally considered benign.

So I sent the surveyor and both brokers the following list of questions I'd like answered before signing off on acceptance of the boat As Is:

How much risk am I assuming in accepting a boat with a known crack in the bulkhead?

What is the worst case with this problem? How would or could it advance?

Does the existence of this crack impose a limitation on the way the boat could or should be sailed? In other words does it mean I need to sail “gently” not to perturb the problem?

What is the approximate cost of a full remedy?

Are there alternate repairs that could provide the same strength?

How does this type of flaw impact resale later if the problem is stable?

How does this type of flaw impact resale later if the problem escalates?

How does this flaw in it’s current condition impact insurance rates on the boat?

How do insurance underwriters view such a flaw? Does it impact rates? Are they prone to put an exclusion rider on the policy?

Is it required that I disclose this flaw to the insurance underwriters or risk invalidating coverage?

Has there been another surveyor who identified the flaw and deemed it benign or inconsequential?


What I'd like to put out to the fine folk of CF is their take on this matter. Does anyone have direct experience with this boat or her sisters?

Thanks in advance!!
First, I think you should be asking an insurance company the insurance questions. Second the insurance company will ask for a copy of the survey. If you submit a false survey (one with the flaw information edited out) it will at best invalidate your insurance and at worst put you in prison for insurance fraud should you ever succeed in making a claim.

The last thing is why would you want a repair of the same strength? The strength of the original was obviously inadequate. You should be looking for a repair that is strong enough to eliminate the problem.
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Old 06-03-2016, 12:04   #3
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Re: Concerns About Bulkhead Crack in 2009 Lagoon 420 O/V

I think the surveyor may tackle the technical part (estimated repair costs, methods and viability). The brokers can be not in the position to discuss re-sale values - they can be in what you can see a conflict of interests. As said above, insurance questions get them thru your preferred insurance agent.

Normally, bulkheads can separate after e.g. an impact. If there has been one, you will want to find if bulkhead separation is the only damage. If the impact was a point impact, you want to know where the immediate impact damage was and how it was repaired. Etc.

Good luck,
b.
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Old 06-03-2016, 12:14   #4
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Re: Concerns About Bulkhead Crack in 2009 Lagoon 420 O/V

Hmmmm a bulkhead crack in the Head? It must be a furniture bulkhead? a small one? One has to wonder if it's much of an issue... I guess the other question is how does Lagoon attach the bulkheads? are they actually glassed to the hull? I doubt it...
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Old 06-03-2016, 14:03   #5
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Re: Concerns About Bulkhead Crack in 2009 Lagoon 420 O/V

I don't know the 420, but our 410 had a thick door bulkhead and only thin furniture bulkheads in the area forward of the door.

The structural bulkheads on the 410 were glassed into place. The thin furniture bulkheads were just glued in place with something like sikaflex.
The thin bulkhead we had under the port front bunk was just a thin skeleton. The PO cut away most of it to accomodate the watermaker.
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Old 06-03-2016, 23:05   #6
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Re: Concerns About Bulkhead Crack in 2009 Lagoon 420 O/V

When we were thinking of purchasing our present boat we had a complete survey done of the boat. We had noted water damage to the base of the foward bulkhead in the port hull seperating the V berth and front storage locker.

The surveyer indicated that it was a structural bulkhead and would be required to be repaired by a qualified shipwright. We negotiated with the seller to have it repaired prior to purchase with the stipulation it must past scrutiny by the surveyor. In the end the rotted section was cut out and repaired to a state way better then when first installed. The insurer was given a copy of the survey and final inspection with zero comment by them.

Make your onwn enquireis but ensure if you have the repair done prior to purchase that it is part of the deal that it pass's the surveys scrutiny.


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Old 08-03-2016, 14:33   #7
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Re: Concerns About Bulkhead Crack in 2009 Lagoon 420 O/V

I'd be careful.

We looked at a 420 which had a large crack in the structural cross bulkhead under the mast which joins both hulls. There was a meter long diagonal crack in the cross bulkhead and separation of the starboard hull.

It was repairable but a big job.

We passed on that boat and bought another 420.

You can inspect the structural cross bulkhead via a hatch located in the starboard hull located at the back of the cupboard just forward of he forward berth door, below the light switch. Get in there and unscrew the panel and you can see under the bridgedeck.


Bob
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Old 08-03-2016, 15:02   #8
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Re: Concerns About Bulkhead Crack in 2009 Lagoon 420 O/V

#1: determine if it's a structural bulkhead or not. Is it glassed or tabbed to the hull? Glued?

#2: Get us a picture.
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