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Old 31-12-2011, 10:33   #1
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Comments on Gaff Rigged Schooner Cat

This one has been up for sale for a year or 2 and the price keeps dropping. It is a 64' traditional design open bridgedeck cat with modified "V" hulls. The rig consists of round tube masts and the sails have webbing straps around the mast.
2008 Constellation Yachts Gaff Rigged Schooner Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
I'm just looking for general comments on the boat and rig.
Pros in no particular order.
1. Big boat and alot of bang for the buck
2. Fairly new with low hours
3. 6 electric winches
4. Fully equipped with almost everything including modern electronics
5. V hulled with daggerboards should point upwind well
6. Fairly light for it's size
Cons in no particular order
1. Absolutely no shade or weather protection
2. No comfortable seating
3. I found on another website that the LWL is about 50'. With V- hulls and the LWL at 64' I am concerned about excessive pitching.
4. I'm guessing the the sail webbing straps could bunch up or bind frequently making this big boat a much bigger PIA. I havn't seen these straps before but alot of traditional designs use ropes instead. BTW The Wharrams have a similar rig but use a luff sleeve.
5. V-hulls turn slower

So, did I miss anything? Anybody have any first hand experience with this type of rig. Just thought I'd mention that we set a record high of 56 degrees with rain yesterday. Global warming is real at least in Montana. BOB
PS Happy New Year
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Old 31-12-2011, 10:45   #2
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

great boat for the tropics and voyaging,but way over priced!
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Old 31-12-2011, 12:17   #3
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
great boat for the tropics and voyaging,but way over priced!
No kidding for a home built!
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Old 31-12-2011, 13:01   #4
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

That is not a homebuilt boat, it is a Nigel Irens custom, it is not a Wharram. You could get a similar Wharram for 1/3 the price. It is similar to the Wharram Islander 65 which is available built in the orient.
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Old 31-12-2011, 13:09   #5
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

It was built by Constellation Yachts in Key West for a hotel and was intended for luxury crewed charters. A complete photo album is here. Photo Album Scroll down to the boat and there are dozens of pics of the build.
Any comments on the rig? BOB
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Old 31-12-2011, 13:46   #6
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

call it what you will,its still just a plywood catamaran,and over priced!

the rig,comment ,pull up if you want to go sailing,put reef in if too windy.............
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Old 31-12-2011, 14:36   #7
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

Sort of a rig question - you go for a split rig to reduce the area of individual sails for easier handling. So why 6 electric winches?
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Old 31-12-2011, 14:40   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand crab
This one has been up for sale for a year or 2 and the price keeps dropping. It is a 64' traditional design open bridgedeck cat with modified "V" hulls. The rig consists of round tube masts and the sails have webbing straps around the mast.
2008 Constellation Yachts Gaff Rigged Schooner Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
I'm just looking for general comments on the boat and rig.
Pros in no particular order.
1. Big boat and alot of bang for the buck
2. Fairly new with low hours
3. 6 electric winches
4. Fully equipped with almost everything including modern electronics
5. V hulled with daggerboards should point upwind well
6. Fairly light for it's size
Cons in no particular order
1. Absolutely no shade or weather protection
2. No comfortable seating
3. I found on another website that the LWL is about 50'. With V- hulls and the LWL at 64' I am concerned about excessive pitching.
4. I'm guessing the the sail webbing straps could bunch up or bind frequently making this big boat a much bigger PIA. I havn't seen these straps before but alot of traditional designs use ropes instead. BTW The Wharrams have a similar rig but use a luff sleeve.
5. V-hulls turn slower

So, did I miss anything? Anybody have any first hand experience with this type of rig. Just thought I'd mention that we set a record high of 56 degrees with rain yesterday. Global warming is real at least in Montana. BOB
PS Happy New Year
Not sure if you are asking if this is a good example of this kind of yacht or whether this is a good yacht for cruising. Boats are personal and this looks like a well maintained yacht. If asking personally and I had a 400+k budget I would not consider this boat.

- often gaff rigs require two people to raise. I want a simpler rig and single mast / cutter rig
- completely unprotected helm and uncomfortable cockpit area - i want at least minimal protection at helm and the deck space should accomodate seating and socializing under way and at anchor
- the hulls are completely separate with galley down - i want the social places linked by a deck house with salon, nav station and galley up. I expect to sail 2 up mostly and we should be able to be in sight of each other as much as possible. That includes cooking and trips to the nav station.
- huge flat deck area used for what? On 50-60 foot better use of space is warranted. If this was built for charter it was probably intended for corporate deck parties/standing room etc.
- no critique but I am not a wood boat guy. Personal bias. I'll take plastic over paper...

Also "bang for buck" to me does not equal LOA. Everything I need for 2 up plus up to 4 guests can be had in a 40 odd foot cat. Awesome 40 odd foot cats can be had for 400k

Again, no criticism of this boat. Just not for me...
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Old 31-12-2011, 14:49   #9
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

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Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat View Post
Sort of a rig question - you go for a split rig to reduce the area of individual sails for easier handling. So why 6 electric winches?
Boom preventers. Expensive ones. Here's a link to the Cat co's ad. You have to register to read it.
Catamarans for sale
I guess my original question wasn't very clear. I am more interested in the hull and rig attributes. Sorry about that. We are considering this boat only if it could be had for far less than asking price. Also the USCG doc angle is not without merit. BOB
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Old 31-12-2011, 15:11   #10
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

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Originally Posted by atoll View Post
call it what you will,its still just a plywood catamaran,and over priced!.
And Banque poplaire is just a glass tri, and Condor of Bermuda is just a timber mono.

Pricing is hard on something like this. It would clearly cost more than it is for sale for, to build. After thats its comparing to others that will give you an idea.

Nigel Irens has designed most of the fastest boats in the world of the last decade, so I suspect performance will be as advertised. If you were really interested I would suggest you consider paying the designer for a review of the boat.
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Old 31-12-2011, 15:27   #11
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

Ok. Well my 2 cents, which might not be worth that much.
The boat was built in 2008 and there are 400 hours on the engine. That's about one month of daylight hours running, so I would assume the boat has really not been used much since the build. Why? For me, this would be a red flag. Is it because it doesn't sail well, has a very un sea-kindly motion when underway? I mean, we are talking about a custom boat here, one that I would think that the original owner would have been wanting to use a lot more than seems indicated. A significant sea-trial would be on my short list of must haves.
Also, I see nowhere that the boat HAS a USCG documentation... just that a commercial USCG is a possibility if the builders are going to refit it for that purpose. I would insist on clarification. (which you may have already gotten)
Beyond that, I will let the better qualified remark as to the rig/hull design.
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Old 31-12-2011, 15:50   #12
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

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Originally Posted by mjwarner View Post
Ok. Well my 2 cents, which might not be worth that much.
The boat was built in 2008 and there are 400 hours on the engine. That's about one month of daylight hours running, so I would assume the boat has really not been used much since the build. Why? For me, this would be a red flag. Is it because it doesn't sail well, has a very un sea-kindly motion when underway? I mean, we are talking about a custom boat here, one that I would think that the original owner would have been wanting to use a lot more than seems indicated. A significant sea-trial would be on my short list of must haves.
Not to disagree on the need to sea trial and get a feel for motion etc, and you may be right on its use etc, but i do note that my boat is 31 months old and has 230 hours on the engines and we sail it a lot - so less than 100 hours per year. We try and motor only to get in and out of the marina. 44C is a full time cruising liveaboard I would be interested to know what his engine hour usage is, I suspect fairly light.

None of which is helping Bob (Sandcrab) with his original question. Sorry mate.
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Old 31-12-2011, 15:54   #13
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mjwarner View Post
Ok. Well my 2 cents, which might not be worth that much.
The boat was built in 2008 and there are 400 hours on the engine. That's about one month of daylight hours running, so I would assume the boat has really not been used much since the build. Why? For me, this would be a red flag. Is it because it doesn't sail well, has a very un sea-kindly motion when underway? I mean, we are talking about a custom boat here, one that I would think that the original owner would have been wanting to use a lot more than seems indicated. A significant sea-trial would be on my short list of must haves.
Also, I see nowhere that the boat HAS a USCG documentation... just that a commercial USCG is a possibility if the builders are going to refit it for that purpose. I would insist on clarification. (which you may have already gotten)
Beyond that, I will let the better qualified remark as to the rig/hull design.
Because she was custom built for guests of the Ritz Carlton hotel I would guess that sea kindly motion or lack there of wouldn't have been a big factor in the low hours for the simple fact that she probably didn't stray far from home. Or perhaps the economy or the fact that the powers that be should have designed in some of the missing attributes already mentioned. The USCG doc is something that we would deal with before an offer is tendered. Step one is to ask the forum members because I can trust you guys. Other parties that have a potential financial gain...not so much.
Ex Cali, Why do gaffs require 2 people? Keep it coming. BOB
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Old 31-12-2011, 15:54   #14
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaimusailing View Post
That is not a homebuilt boat, it is a Nigel Irens custom, it is not a Wharram. You could get a similar Wharram for 1/3 the price. It is similar to the Wharram Islander 65 which is available built in the orient.
I wish I had been straight on that when I sold my "custom" Roberts 34 at the Martin yard in Santa Cruz. I could of asked 3 times as much!
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Old 31-12-2011, 15:59   #15
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Re: Comments on gaff rigged schooner cat

Oh yes, There is a pic of Nigel Irens on photo 75 of the album. I really like the album for showing how a big boat is built. Whether we buy it or not I still think the pics showing the boat being built is kinda cool. Anybody reading this should take a look.
BOB
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