Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 07-08-2015, 20:22   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 7
Command 10 backstay

Hi, I am still working on the refit of this 1995(not 85 as previously stated!) command10.
The owner past away but before his sickness, he had dismounted all the rig to replace/service.
Now I need to put everything back.
The question is: I have no back stays at present and need to make new one, anyone have suggestions?

N.b.
The boat is seriously for sale!
__________________

__________________
Marcojava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2015, 12:50   #2
Registered User
 
Skip JayR's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: see https://trienthusiasts.wordpress.com/
Boat: still looking for the right Tri
Posts: 430
Re: Command 10 backstay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcojava View Post
The boat is seriously for sale!
Are you working on this boat ?


Is this your working place ?


Marco (on Java/Indonesia) I dont think, its a good idea to setup the backstages... as couple of years ago Jim who owned a Farrier Command 10 reconfigures the rig... and took away the backstages, see the picture...


Jim mentioned following: "With swept back spreaders and reinforced swept back shrouds, the backstay has been removed and a new main with a moderate roach has been installed. Now, Aussie has a modern sail plan in keeping with Farriers more recent designs. Bending the mast for draft control is provided by the mainsail tension on the leech. Forestay tension is maintained by the swept back upper shrouds."

What about the sails plan of this blue Command 10 you are working on ? This boat has 3 tons roughly... and regularly only a small sail area of 46 m2 with a low height mast of 13 meters...


instead Farrier designed this boat for a speed >20 knots. I suppose it needs bigger sails, isnt ?
__________________

__________________
Skip JayR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-08-2015, 20:56   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 7
Re: Command 10 backstay

Hi, yes I am still working in The boat, thanks for The reply, what I really need is a picture or drawing of the backstay sistem, I have two chain plate on the main hull and two on each side hull, this is quie confusing, maybe is a split backstay and two running backstays? You can see more picture on the boat ad here Bali - Sale of 10m Farrier Trimaran the price is seriously negotiable!
__________________
Marcojava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2015, 04:52   #4
Registered User
 
Skip JayR's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: see https://trienthusiasts.wordpress.com/
Boat: still looking for the right Tri
Posts: 430
Re: Command 10 backstay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcojava View Post
Hi, yes I am still working in The boat, thanks for The reply, what I really need is a picture or drawing of the backstay sistem, I have two chain plate on the main hull and two on each side hull, this is quie confusing, maybe is a split backstay and two running backstays? You can see more picture on the boat ad here Bali - Sale of 10m Farrier Trimaran the price is seriously negotiable!
For downwind course one takes the forked astern backstage... going upwind, opens this astern backstage and uses port and starboard running backstage... that's a very normal procedure on some racing boats. And makes sense.

Why not overletting this job the new owner ? As I asked: What is with the sails on this boat ? What size, what quality, what type, what age ?

As you can see with Jim's command 10 it has good resasons to reconfigure the rig. Overlet it the new owner and don't make lots of headage with this. So I would handle it as owner.

About the sales prize...

The boat is heavily overpriced... all what counts is the boat market and what must be invested further on.

Actually you get a Kraken33 for 21 Thousand dollars, which is very similar to the Command 10 (same plywood-epoxy)...


Or a 10 meter Clou 10 MKII which was sold for 25400 US dollars fully equipped... with everything for long distance cruising. Really ready to sail to go trans-ocean. The blue Command 10 is not ready for this.


You have low wages in Asia, that's why Ian Farrier started couple of years ago a company there, same Tony Grainger (Australian multihull designer) is producing there and Rapido 60 will be produced from autumn on.

Your boat under Indonesian flag lays on the beach, has no expensive marina costs, no slipping / craning costs etc. ...

Low wages / low costs = low sales prizes. That's the formula one should get reflected in the sales price.

The boat is offered for now at a price standard higher than in Western world. That's not OK in my understanding. And it has nothing for long distance sailing (no water maker, no radar, no epirb, no deck shower etc. ...).
The auto piolot with this "tiller construction" doesn't give real confidence. So I think, it even needs an autopilot which is connected with the wheel steering system directly, inclusive a midi interface for Chart plotter and GPS.
The pics "under deck" dont show any navigation instrument in the navi area. What is with VHF with AIS ? - A fast Trimaran (which regularly has the double speed of a monohull) needs electronic navigation, as mostly it is sailed with small crew, single- or double handed. - Electronics are very helpfully. So the boat will need enough and more solar panels, too for running all this equipment 24 hours. All extra costs to be calculated. The Command 10 was not designed by Ian Farrier as a day cruiser. Its a sea going vessel even with the robustness of going bigger than 20 knots.

In the sals description is said, that cables had been ordered from Netherlands, but the owner yet didn't reinstall the electrics, right ? This is a (time) expensive job to do. What about navigation, decks and saloon/cabin lights using LED ? I suppose it has not, or ?

For 49,000 US dollars one gets a fully refitted, equipped and modernized 43 foot boat, e.g. this beautiful Hydrofoil 13 meter Trimaran which was modernized shortly for a transatlantic regatta. It even has rotation mast and bowsprit. A boat which can easily go faster than 20 knots.


Just got an offer for a very beautiful completely maintained and equipped cruising trimaran of 36 foot length... at a prize of 44,900 US dollars (with a total investment of 280 Thousand US dollars replacement value).


So it goes in the boat market... no owner gets the money back. It's an illusion to make profit with used boats. The boat market is (still) down... in Australia same as in USA or Europe because of financial crisis, recession etc... that's another aspect.

As you can see with the upper pictures, there are plenty of speedy Trimarans out there, at least same or even more attractive compared with the heavy weighted Command 10 (~ 3 tons) which cannot be trailered or folded anymore (Rec.: Inspite Ian Farrier designed it as a foldable boat for trailer).

All the different aspects comes into account to fix a good and fair prize, as there must be invested a lot more money by the new owner to make this boat a real safe and seagoing Trimaran... inclusive some other little details like davits for the dinghy, Bimini Sprayhood, wind generator (beside solar panels) etc. ... to make the living on board comfortable, safe and enjoyable.

It should be a fair deal, isnt ? :-)
__________________
Skip JayR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2015, 05:00   #5
Registered User
 
Skip JayR's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: see https://trienthusiasts.wordpress.com/
Boat: still looking for the right Tri
Posts: 430
Re: Command 10 backstay

I just answered you MarcoJava... but the post is gone ???? Strange... so I will re-post it. Hopefully it wond be double then... maybe a "Script" problem.
__________________
Skip JayR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2015, 05:08   #6
Registered User
 
Skip JayR's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: see https://trienthusiasts.wordpress.com/
Boat: still looking for the right Tri
Posts: 430
Re: Command 10 backstay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcojava View Post
Hi, yes I am still working in The boat, thanks for The reply, what I really need is a picture or drawing of the backstay sistem, I have two chain plate on the main hull and two on each side hull, this is quie confusing, maybe is a split backstay and two running backstays? You can see more picture on the boat ad here Bali - Sale of 10m Farrier Trimaran the price is seriously negotiable!
That makes sense... the wind forces onto a Multihull rigg are much bigger compared to a monohull as Tris have nearby "0" heeling, so the pressure in gusting wind can become extremly high.

For downwind course one takes the forked astern backstage... going upwind, opens this astern backstage and uses the combination of port + astern or starboard + astern running backstage... that's a very normal procedure on some racing boats I have experienced up to 50 footers.

It needs two terminal blocks each with a screw mechanism to manoever quickly.

Why not overletting this job the new owner ? As I asked: What is with the sails on this boat ? What size, what quality, what type, what age ?

As you can see with Jim's command 10 it has good resasons to reconfigure the rig. Overlet it the new owner and don't make lots of headage with this. So I would handle it as owner.

About the sales prize...

The boat is heavily overpriced... all what counts is the boat market and what must be invested further on.

Actually you get a Kraken33 for 21 Thousand dollars, which is very similar to the Command 10 (same plywood-epoxy)...


Or a 10 meter Clou 10 MKII which was sold for 25400 US dollars fully equipped... with everything for long distance cruising. Really ready to sail to go trans-ocean. The blue Command 10 is not ready for this.
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.

You have low wages in Asia, that's why Ian Farrier started couple of years ago a company there, same Tony Grainger (Australian multihull designer) is producing there and Rapido 60 will be produced from autumn on. The boat lays on the beach, has no marina costs, no slipping / craning costs etc. ...

Low wages / low costs = low sales prizes. That's the formula one should get reflected in the sales price.

The boat is offered for now at a price standard higher than in Western world. That's not OK in my understanding. And it has nothing for long distance sailing (no water maker, no radar, no epirb, no deck shower etc. ...).
The auto piolot with this "tiller construction" doesn't give real confidence. So I think, it even needs an autopilot which is connected with the wheel steering system directly, inclusive a midi interface for Chart plotter and GPS.
The pics "under deck" dont show any navigation instrument in the navi area. What is with VHF with AIS ? - A fast Trimaran (which regularly has the double speed of a monohull) needs electronic navigation, as mostly it is sailed with small crew, single- or double handed. - Electronics are very helpfully. So the boat will need enough and more solar panels, too for running all this equipment 24 hours. All extra costs to be calculated. The Command 10 was not designed by Ian Farrier as a day cruiser. Its a sea going vessel even with the robustness of going bigger than 20 knots.

In the sals description is said, that cables had been ordered from Netherlands, but the owner yet didn't reinstall the electrics, right ? This is a (time) expensive job to do. What about navigation, decks and saloon/cabin lights using LED ? I suppose it has not, or ?

For 49,000 US dollars one gets a fully refitted, equipped and modernized 43 foot boat, e.g. this beautiful Hydrofoil 13 meter Trimaran which was modernized shortly for a transatlantic regatta. It even has rotation mast and bowsprit. A boat which can easily go faster than 20 knots.
This image has been resized. Click this bar to view the full image. The original image is sized %1%2.

Just got an offer for a very beautiful completely maintained and equipped cruising trimaran of 36 foot length... at a prize of 44,900 US dollars (with a total investment of 280 Thousand US dollars replacement value).


So it goes in the boat market... no owner gets the money back. It's an illusion to make profit with used boats. The boat market is (still) down... in Australia same as in USA or Europe because of financial crisis, recession etc... that's another aspect.

As you can see with the upper pictures, there are plenty of speedy Trimarans out there, at least same or even more attractive compared with the heavy weighted Command 10 (~ 3 tons) which cannot be trailered or folded anymore (Rec.: Inspite Ian Farrier designed it as a foldable boat for trailer).

All the different aspects comes into account to fix a good and fair prize, as there must be invested a lot more money by the new owner to make this boat a real safe and seagoing Trimaran... inclusive some other little details like davits for the dinghy, Bimini Sprayhood, wind generator (beside solar panels) etc. ... to make the living on board comfortable, safe and enjoyable.

It should be a fair deal, isnt ? :-)
__________________
Skip JayR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2015, 05:13   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2015
Posts: 7
Re: Command 10 backstay

Thanks for the reply,
I agree with you, I will leave the backstay issue to the new owner, about the sails, I know they are almost new but I have measured them yet.
The price is negotiable, but note that this is an Indonesian registered boat so don't need any cruising permit or outrageous import tax if someone want to enjoy her throughout the fantastic Indonesian islands and that's an added value.
The boat has an hydraulic autopilot as well and also four solar panel plus a lot of electronic equipment and a rib tender with a 6hp outboard.
What you think could be a fair price?
Thanks
__________________
Marcojava is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-08-2015, 10:34   #8
Registered User
 
Skip JayR's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: see https://trienthusiasts.wordpress.com/
Boat: still looking for the right Tri
Posts: 430
Re: Command 10 backstay

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcojava View Post
What you think could be a fair price?
Thanks
... will send you a PM beginning coming week. :-)
__________________
Skip JayR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-01-2016, 23:24   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 3
Re: Command 10 backstay

Hi MarcoJava and Skip JayR,
I'm looking for a trimaran for day sailing and holiday sailing with wife and young baby in South est Asia, i live since 6 years now in Thailand.
I saw this command 10 for sale here (https://www.apolloduck.com/feature.phtml?id=439943) the price seems to be reduced now, the broker told that there is also some fiber works to plan and so much more.
I already did some boat restauration on somes on my 4th first boat and i could be interested by this tri with interesting potential.
So i found this thread, MarcoJava before to contact the broker, are you the owner or broker ? we could probably deal together ..? please let me know aboat this.
Could you also tell me if the boat is on secure shipyard where i can also found some equipments like fiber, west system epoxy, electric etc..
Cheers
Pai Loei
__________________

__________________
Pai Loei is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
backstay HF antenna and split backstay Jd1 Marine Electronics 21 18-03-2015 09:26
Igor, the Ugly Command Performance in Bermuda Blue Stocking Atlantic & the Caribbean 22 22-09-2010 05:51
For Sale: Farrier Command 10 Trimaran jpemb7 Classifieds Archive 0 08-08-2010 04:32
Command Mic Transmit Audio newbie123 Marine Electronics 13 03-08-2010 10:49
Vessels Not Under Command 44'cruisingcat General Sailing Forum 7 08-02-2010 13:43



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:01.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.