Circumnavigation w/o liferaft

[fastcat435]

Originally Posted by Therapy

To have your cabin flooded, decks awash, radio out (not to mention a pissed off Admiral), etc.
Then the raft does not inflate.
Boy, that would suck!
I wonder what those percentages are?

In a test done a couple of years ago , I do not remember the source but it was a British magazine 7 our of 12 did not inflate , that is food for thought !!!!

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by BigCat

Speaking as one who has made a number of passages, I would say that this is more complicated than it may seem. If you are in a race and go missing, someone will come looking for you, and have some idea of where you are. If you are in huge breaking seas, you may want the built in canopy and water ballast of a liferaft, where you can await rescue in the best available comfort and security. But if you are a cruiser, out there with no schedule to speak of in the relatively moderate seas of the tropical waters of the world, you probably want a dingy so you can rescue yourself. Obviously, a really big inflatable nylon and Hypalon dingy with a ditch bag, a lug or sprit sail rig, a sea anchor, and a canopy would be best. This question is complicated by the fact that people's trust that all was well inside that white liferaft cannister has sometimes been disappointed. In a multihull, I would concentrate on fireproofing and guaranteeing the buoyancy of the boat, and stay with it.

My argument precisely. It depends on the catamaran.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by fastcat435

I would like to give you all the advice when the life raft is due for service to actually trow the thing in the water ( if you are lucky it will actually inflate ) and try it out for as many people as it is meant for , I have , a 4 seater with 4 people is hardly possible , if you still have to get one then always get a raft that can handle 2 extra people in other words for 4 get a 6 and for 6 get an 8.
It is almost impossible to crawl into a 4 seater weith 4 people

That's a remarkably simple (and excellent) suggestion........

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by Therapy

To have your cabin flooded, decks awash, radio out (not to mention a pissed off Admiral), etc.
Then the raft does not inflate.
Boy, that would suck!
I wonder what those percentages are?

We did a liferaft course when I worked for Shell. The numbers involved required two liferafts to be used, and of those two, one failed to inflate. The people running the course had brought along TWO spare liferafts, just in case. To me, the fact that they had allowed for a 50% failure rate was pretty telling. That, along with the difficulty of use, and discomfort of the rafts themselves, has a lot to do with my approach - build the boat bouyant enough, and stay with it.

Use fire retardant materials as much as possible, but in the case that fails, use the dinghy.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

We did a liferaft course when I worked for Shell. The numbers involved required two liferafts to be used, and of those two, one failed to inflate. The people running the course had brought along TWO spare liferafts, just in case. To me, the fact that they had allowed for a 50% failure rate was pretty telling. That, along with the difficulty of use, and discomfort of the rafts themselves, has a lot to do with my approach - build the boat bouyant enough, and stay with it.

Use fire retardant materials as much as possible, but in the case that fails, use the dinghy.

I am back to my original thought, which is what you say last.

[fastcat435]

Originally Posted by 44'cruisingcat

We did a liferaft course when I worked for Shell. The numbers involved required two liferafts to be used, and of those two, one failed to inflate. The people running the course had brought along TWO spare liferafts, just in case. To me, the fact that they had allowed for a 50% failure rate was pretty telling. That, along with the difficulty of use, and discomfort of the rafts themselves, has a lot to do with my approach - build the boat bouyant enough, and stay with it.

Use fire retardant materials as much as possible, but in the case that fails, use the dinghy.

This is one of them many reasons we build the FastCats with 200 % build in buoyancy and are discontinuing the use of gas on board
That way you never have to leave your cat in whatever position it may be. Safety is the best one can get on a cat and specially one that always stays afloat. Another reason for building lightweight is that we need less buoyancy.

[BigCat]

There is a kind of paint you can get that is fireproof. It costs much more than regular paint, though. Google 'intumescent fire retardant paints' Here is one result, that has a marine product: Flame Control : : Flame Retardant, Fire Resistant, Heat Resistant Coatings

[GordMay]

Intumescent coatings are paint-like substances, which are inert at low temperatures; but which provide insulation by swelling, to present a charred layer of low thermal conductivity material at high temperatures.
When exposed to fire and/or high heat, the coating intumesces (puffs up) to form a thick, dense fire barrier. This layer reduces the surface burning characteristics of combustible materials and retards the penetration of heat to the substrate.
They are commonly applied to interior structural steel members.

I doubt that the previously-linked product is intended for application on Fibreglass substrates:
Flame Control No. 46081:
http://www.flamecontrol.com/images/d...7/PD-46081.pdf

[BigCat]

Gord, a number of products listed on that page say they can be put over wood, and at least one specifies that it can be put on "all interior combustible surfaces." Anyway, my point is that this category of product exists, not that this brand is the one to buy. If you have a stock boat built with standard resin you can improve your fire safety in vulnerable areas by using this class of product in vulnerable areas, such as engine rooms, galleys, battery compartments, and anywhere heavy battery cable runs. I advocate building your boat with fire retardant resin, but this option is not available to most readers of this board. In fact, I think putting this stuff in your engine rooms is a good idea, even if you have fire-retardant resin. You can paint over it with a harder, glossier paint if you like.

[Zach]

Wow,

A paint on flame retardant. I'll have to get some of that!

Amazing what you learn around here.

[BigCat]

See: Firefree 88 - Testing & assemblies for FF88, a fire resistant, intumescent coating for building materials
Firefree 88 - FF88 fire retardant and fire resistant protective safety coating for building materials

I have no connection with this company. It is a very extensive website, with very impressive customers--Boeing, BART, etc., using it on fiberglass and carbon fiber composites. It is water based, so we won't poison ourselves using it in our engine rooms. There seems to be no info on how to buy this product, so I e-mailed them.

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by BigCat

See: Firefree 88 - Testing & assemblies for FF88, a fire resistant, intumescent coating for building materials
Firefree 88 - FF88 fire retardant and fire resistant protective safety coating for building materials

I have no connection with this company. It is a very extensive website, with very impressive customers--Boeing, BART, etc., using it on fiberglass and carbon fiber composites. It is water based, so we won't poison ourselves using it in our engine rooms. There seems to be no info on how to buy this product, so I e-mailed them.

It ould be interesting to know the price, and weight. They specify 100sq.ft/gallon it seems to get a 10 mil dry thickness. It contains ceramic and silica fibres according to the safety sheet.

Definetely worth considering for the engine rooms and major cable runs.

Alan

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Nordic cat

It ould be interesting to know the price, and weight. They specify 100sq.ft/gallon it seems to get a 10 mil dry thickness. It contains ceramic and silica fibres according to the safety sheet. Definetely worth considering for the engine rooms and major cable runs. Alan

FF88 - $315 USD for 5 gallons, buy it from the company direct. They don't sell smaller quantities. There is an Australian distributor, for those down under.

[Pat Ross]

Originally Posted by BigCat

FF88 - $315 USD for 5 gallons, buy it from the company direct. They don't sell smaller quantities. There is an Australian distributor, for those down under.

What do you know about the resin?

[BigCat]

Originally Posted by Pat Ross

What do you know about the resin?

What resin? Fire retardant resin? I am working on a project with Vinylester resin from Reichhold, Dion 9300-10. You add antimony dioxide or antimony trioxide to the resin if you want to gain maximum fire retardancy. www.reichhold.com/docs/bulletin/DION%20FR%209300.pdf -