Circumnavigation w/o liferaft

[Nordic cat]

Originally Posted by fastcat435

Hallo Alan

If you need help in the process let me know , my phone cell number is
+31654908128 If you need epoxy I might be able to help you get a good price since we order 5 tons of infusion epoxy each 3 months from Germany

Greetings

Gideon

Hi Gideon,

I'll call you in about a week...

Thanks

Alan

[fastcat435]

Originally Posted by Nordic cat

Hi Gideon,

I'll call you in about a week...

Thanks

Alan

Next week I will be in South Africa , leaving there coming wednesday
My office number there is +27317057907
or on skype my skype name is fastcat435

Gideon

[ronflonflon]

Steve Dashew seems to prefer a well prepared dinghy over a liferaft, here are 2 pictures:

SetSail.com - the serious cruising sailor's website

[GordMay]

The Dashews are effecting a compromise, such that they “... using the dinghy for exploration in remote locales ...’, as well as a liferaft; saying “... We have always thought of a properly prepared dinghy as a better option than the life raft in most situations ...”

I wouldn’t think that abandoning ship mid-ocean, where most of us might opt for a dedicated liferaft, can be characterised as a routine (‘most”) situation.

The “right tool” is always preferable to a “multi-tool” in performing any critical function, such as when abandoning ship; and I think it’s irresponsible of them (Dashews) to foist off their internal rationalizations (about their compromise solution) as considered advice.

Compromises are often necessary, given (most of) our limited resources. We carefully consider each, and make them grudgingly. We shouldn’t rationalize that these unavoidable concessions are “better” - they’re just what's “possible”, given our limited choices.

[BigCat]

"Compromises are often necessary, given (most of) our limited resources. We carefully consider each, and make them grudgingly. We shouldn’t rationalize that these unavoidable concessions are “better” - they’re just what's “possible”, given our limited choices." You can be sure that if Dashew doesn't have a life raft, it isn't because of the money. He always seems to do things the highest quality, most expensive way possible.

[Agility]

Thanks everyone! I'm still a little unsure as to the right answer.

An interesting question arose for me out of this dialog. If you had to chose, would you abandon ship in a liferaft or a dink? I may start that thread later if we don't get a response in this thread.

I kind of like the idea of having a dinghy that has many of the features of a life raft - a cover, ditch bag, sea anchor, sail?, etc.

Given that I think I would be chose the dinghy.

[David M]

If you can convert your dinghy into a miniaturized version of a modern ships lifeboat with all the same survival amenities, then excellent. That beats a life raft any day. But how to do this is a big question. Dinghys are not lifeboats. They are not even close without all the survival goodies that come with a lifeboat.

Image:Brosen lifeboats scandinavia.jpg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[img]file:///C:/Users/David/AppData/Local/Temp/moz-screenshot.jpg[/img]

[BigCat]

Speaking as one who has made a number of passages, I would say that this is more complicated than it may seem. If you are in a race and go missing, someone will come looking for you, and have some idea of where you are. If you are in huge breaking seas, you may want the built in canopy and water ballast of a liferaft, where you can await rescue in the best available comfort and security. But if you are a cruiser, out there with no schedule to speak of in the relatively moderate seas of the tropical waters of the world, you probably want a dingy so you can rescue yourself. Obviously, a really big inflatable nylon and Hypalon dingy with a ditch bag, a lug or sprit sail rig, a sea anchor, and a canopy would be best. This question is complicated by the fact that people's trust that all was well inside that white liferaft cannister has sometimes been disappointed. In a multihull, I would concentrate on fireproofing and guaranteeing the buoyancy of the boat, and stay with it.

[EdKangeter]

Originally Posted by BlueRhapCity

Given that you stay with the overturned Cat, have an eprib and are trying to keep the weight down on a circumnavigating cat.

Would you consider going without a liferaft?

The salesman asked me why I required a liferaft when I bought my cat, a Lagoon 41. My reply: a. The Titanic (things don't always go as planned/designed) b. Can my boat catch fire? Yes, well then I rest my case.
OK, when it comes to safety at sea I tend towards the conservative. Long swims don't appeal to me. BTW the size, type and equipment aboard the liferaft is worth as much attention as whether or not to get one. There have been some very revealing "tests" conducted by either West Marine or Latitude 38. Recreational sailor men and women were placed into liferafts for extended periods. The fatigue and discomfort encountered in a relatively short period argued for: A.) Double bottoms for insulation from the sea, B.) Liferafts that have better stability under heavy wave conditions and C.) Bigger liferafts than the stated size. (Four adults in a four person liferaft are cramped.) are just a few of the notable findings.
Good luck!

[BigCat]

[quote=EdKangeter;143527]The salesman asked me why I required a liferaft when I bought my cat, a Lagoon 41. My reply: a. The Titanic (things don't always go as planned/designed) b. Can my boat catch fire? Yes, well then I rest my case.
Yes, unfortunately, stock boats aren't made with fire retardant resin, don't have lots of watertight compartments of adequate size to insure buoyancy if one or two are holed, don't come equipped with engine room automatic fire extinguishing systems, and don't come with large amounts of closed cell foam in addition to the core found in the hulls and deck laminates. You can add the Fireboy or similar fire extinguishing systems, but the rest pretty much depends on having either a custom or home-built boat in which these safety measures were a part of the initial design concept. I would think twice about using the usual stock multihull as a liferaft , too, as my calculations show that the buoyancy in the laminate from sandwich cores is not really enough to insure adequate buoyancy.

[Pat Ross]

Originally Posted by ronflonflon

Steve Dashew seems to prefer a well prepared dinghy over a liferaft, here are 2 pictures:

SetSail.com - the serious cruising sailor's website

The equipped dingy the Dashew's are displaying plus the gear seem quite a bit of weight for a multihull.

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by EdKangeter

The fatigue and discomfort encountered in a relatively short period argued for: ................. C.) Bigger liferafts than the stated size. (Four adults in a four person liferaft are cramped.) are just a few of the notable findings.

My understanding (which may of course be wrong!) is that Liferafts are designed to be cramped - as the number of bodies insides provides ballast - so a 6 person raft with only 2 people inside would be a lot less stable than a full one. The downside for stability is being cramped.

[David M]

Originally Posted by David_Old_Jersey

My understanding (which may of course be wrong!) is that Liferafts are designed to be cramped - as the number of bodies insides provides ballast - so a 6 person raft with only 2 people inside would be a lot less stable than a full one. The downside for stability is being cramped.

Wouldn't the water chambers on the underside far outweigh the persons on board so as to make the crew weight less relevant? If not, they should.

[fastcat435]

I would like to give you all the advice when the life raft is due for service to actually trow the thing in the water ( if you are lucky it will actually inflate ) and try it out for as many people as it is meant for , I have , a 4 seater with 4 people is hardly possible , if you still have to get one then always get a raft that can handle 2 extra people in other words for 4 get a 6 and for 6 get an 8.
It is almost impossible to crawl into a 4 seater weith 4 people

[Therapy]

To have your cabin flooded, decks awash, radio out (not to mention a pissed off Admiral), etc.
Then the raft does not inflate.
Boy, that would suck!
I wonder what those percentages are?