Cheap Multis and Projects

[clockwork orange]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

These older cats had a narrow beam which means a more tender boat and capsize is more of a worry. The daggerboards add to this but should sail pretty well. All of the modern cats are over 50% beam and some are much wider. Except Gemini which is an old design anyway.
Oddly enough some of the large cats go back to narrower and I can't understand the logic there.

The overall beam does not tell the whole story, stability of a cat comes from beam as measured from hull centerlines and weight, so a more modern cat with big fat hulls may not necessarily be more stable, except that they are also usually a lot heavier than the older boats too. When you look at old Choy boats with assymetrical hulls, while the overall beam looks narrow by todays standards the hull centerlines are further apart than if they were symmetrical with the same hull beam and overall beam. My point is i guess that the heavier weight of the modern production cats plays a bigger part than the wider beam in increased stability. Additional contributing factors of course are sail area and mast height.

Steve.

[magentawave]

Good point and I have wondered about that myself. I'm thinking that many of the cat manufacturers are hoping to sell boats to the charter trade where half the time the boats are motored here and there instead of being sailed.

Originally Posted by Sand crab

Oddly enough some of the large cats go back to narrower and I can't understand the logic there.

[Sand crab]

Great discussion. Sorry about the centerboard/daggerboard mixup. I know about all the parameters of length, waterline, beam etc. But weren't these boats known to be tender? I thought I read it here.

[brownoarsman]

The Iroquois owners association published a list of all known hulls and details on their current condition, there are a few. It's probably not unexpected though when the owners' association also maintains that it's not fun cat sailing until a hull is in the air: "A catamaran which cannot lift a hull is either built too heavy or just has not enough sail - in fact it is like two floating logs, one not knowing what the other is going to do!" On my beach cat definitely, on a cruising cat with electronics, batteries, and upholstery ... Definitely not!

[smj]

Many accounts of the Iroquois turning turtle but none of the Cherokee or Apache that I know of. These boats have also accomplished numerous ocean crossings and circumnavigation's. These boats were meant to sail not to cater to the modern charter crowd.


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[Sand crab]

A 1962 CSK 47 for $49K. That's an old one. The pics need to be in the other "Worst Pics" thread.
1962 Lindenberg CSK 47 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

[Boatguy30]

There is also another prout in marathon on the keys craigslist. I have some personal knowledge of the boat and if can make do with a prout its a good deal at 30K with all the gear.

[clockwork orange]

Ooh, i like that CSK, one of the better looking ones, a lot of the bigger ones have not so attractive cabins. I agree about the photos, hard to get much idea of condition from those. Built by Lindenberg is a surprise. If it is not a rot box this could be a nice boat with some work and probably sail circles around a lot of the modern condomarans.


Steve.

[Therapy]

Originally Posted by Sand crab

A 1962 CSK 47 for $49K. That's an old one. The pics need to be in the other "Worst Pics" thread.
1962 Lindenberg CSK 47 Sail Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com

Heh!
Whatever is in that box on the stove must be a secret recipe.............or a pet bullfrog.

[snort]

Originally Posted by Therapy

Heh!
Whatever is in that box on the stove must be a secret recipe.............or a pet bullfrog.

OMG! No! It's the Lindenberg baby!!!

[magentawave]

I have never sailed on an Iriquois but used to see one sail and they look nice and I know they are built like brick-sh#t houses. The capsize thing must have been an issue because you can still see a few out there with the float at the top of the mast. Maybe they've had a bad wrap, you know? So it would be interesting to read each account of why they capsized.

Does anyone know what the ultimate stability of a narrow beam Iriquois with its relatively small sail area would be verses a super wide cat like a Shuttleworth with its massively huge sail area? I mean, wide beam is good but at some point there has to be a tradeoff when the boat has so much sail area. I'm sure some computer nerd could run the numbers and come up with something.

Originally Posted by smj

Many accounts of the Iroquois turning turtle but none of the Cherokee or Apache that I know of. These boats have also accomplished numerous ocean crossings and circumnavigation's. These boats were meant to sail not to cater to the modern charter crowd.


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[smj]

Great price on an older British Classic.
http://www.sailboatlistings.com/view/47327


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[Dulcesuenos]

Wish it was a little closer, Id be all over it

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[Catamoron]

I just started browsing this thread tonight, and then I had a thought: I wonder if my boat is actually listed on this thread as a "Cheap Multis and Project"?

And what do you know - there it was talked about for the first time by Sand Crab on entry #636. The date is even right, because I saw the listing the same day, and within about two days we had an offer in on it and ended up buying it as-is, where-is.

If you want to go back and see everything that was done to this boat over the past year getting it ready for the water, check out my blog at Catchin' Rays I even have a cost break-down on one of my entries.

And we just splashed her 2 weeks ago and am writing this entry from the saloon. Do I think this crappy old boat was worth it? Absolutely! We've taken this old and forgotten boat and transformed her into a beauty.

Here is the link to the entire video documentation that includes 5 refit episodes and a couple other how-to videos and also includes my most recent splash video.

https://www.youtube.com/user/kevtamus

[ZULU40]

Originally Posted by magentawave

I have never sailed on an Iriquois but used to see one sail and they look nice and I know they are built like brick-sh#t houses. The capsize thing must have been an issue because you can still see a few out there with the float at the top of the mast. Maybe they've had a bad wrap, you know? So it would be interesting to read each account of why they capsized.

Does anyone know what the ultimate stability of a narrow beam Iriquois with its relatively small sail area would be verses a super wide cat like a Shuttleworth with its massively huge sail area? I mean, wide beam is good but at some point there has to be a tradeoff when the boat has so much sail area. I'm sure some computer nerd could run the numbers and come up with something.

I seem to remember these as centerboard boats, and that this contributed to its capsize history which it certainly has.

Another McAlphine Downie boat was the 32ft Comanche, which I have a bit of a soft spot for, but somewhat rare.