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Old 15-07-2012, 13:37   #16
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

Nothings ever Perfect !! Close maybe, but not perfect!! As soon as we get the perfect boat we find something else we forgot or see something we wish we had !! So for most of us nothings ever perfect !!!LOL We just have to live with what we have !! + 1 for the One Hull LOL
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Old 15-07-2012, 16:59   #17
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by avb3 View Post
Has only one hull.
Why is it that people feel the need to be dogmatic. This adds nothing, its trolling and it will lead nowhere. I get it you like your mono, thats okay, but why on earth cant a group of people have a civilised conversation about multihulls without some half smart comment like this.
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Old 15-07-2012, 18:42   #18
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

I've never looked through mono hull threads, but i wonder if they get inundated by multihullers hurting their singular feelings?
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Old 15-07-2012, 18:56   #19
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

The best cat that I have sailed on is an Entincelle 60. It is lightweight, fast, comfortable without having all sorts of luxury items.It is the only 60 footer that only has 2 heads, no air conditioner and no generator.

Alas, my Voyage 38 is almost perfect. It's paid for.
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Old 15-07-2012, 19:03   #20
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

I know nothing of them but i do like the FOUNTAINE PAJOT ELEUTHERA 60 so many Lagoon styles in them, they almost got it right!!
Bit too big though :-(
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Old 15-07-2012, 19:18   #21
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

Of course, the "perfect" boat is a subjective thing and depends much on intended use, but here are some of my thoughts:

I've run a lot of different makes and models of cats as a charter captain/delivery skipper/instructor/cruiser and developed some definite opinions from this experience.

First, most modern cats share several common design flaws (IMHO).

1. Helm placement. Almost all product cats have helms in less than ideal places (like the cockpit bulkhead). Those that I think have it right: Chris White, Gun Boat, Maine Cat, Wharram (see new larger models like the Pahi and Islander). For the worst ever helm placement see the Nautitec 44.

2. Bridge deck clearance. Most South African cats have relatively low bridge deck clearance or at least taper to low clearance aft -- more is better.

3. Deck House. Huge deck house structures to maximize accommodation spaces create more windage, reduce visibility, and add weight. I prefer more minimal deck house structures, like Chris Whites, or none like Wharram designs (see Pahi & Islander models)

4. Sail Plan. The typical huge main sail driven sloop rig is not the ideal cruising sail plan. That big main can become a liability for cruising and takes more muscle to handle. More, smaller sails is a better cruising sail plan (true of mono or cat). A cutter rig or schooner (like some Wharram's) is a more practical cruising/offshore rig.

5. Engine Placement. The stern of the boat is the wrong place to put more weight (better than the bow I suppose, but midships is better). Stuffing lots of space in the stern also necessitates wider profile of the stern hull sections which reduces performance -- a narrow smooth profile -- both bow and stern is better. See Wharram and Gunboat for better engine placement ideas.

6. Exposed Rudder & Drive. Try running over a fishing net in almost any production cat at night -- it's not pretty. Better to have an under body design that will slide right over things that go bump in night...more like a traditional full keeled mono. Again, see Wharram (no I don't like ALL of his design ideas, but he does have some very good ones).

A few other things to consider.

Heads. Mid-ship heads (like on some FP's), accessible by all guests, is a good practical consideration. I think that boats with in-suite heads in every cabin are ridiculous -- who needs that many heads? And of course you have to maintain them all.

Sail Drives. I've had good luck with my Volvo sail drives, but they do increase maintenance concerns and costs. If you ever have to do major repairs to one then you will need someone with training, experience, and the long list of specialized tools and parts to fix them. The parts are wildly expensive -- I had to replace a damaged prop shaft on one -- this shaft is less than 1' in length and was $450 from Volvo! My preference is a good old simple shaft draft which can be repaired easily anywhere in the world you can find basic machine shop services and materials. Even better: some Wharram designs use lifting shafts which not only eliminate the fouling issue when under sail, but also eliminate drive related through hulls -- I have not sailed with these, but sure do like the idea.

Engine Access. Most cats have quite good engine access -- especially if compared to older monohulls, but some better than others: Some FP's for example have a bulkhead just inches from the front of the engine which makes even simple routine work a huge pain. Engine placement where you don't have to remove a bunk, and all the crap inevitably stacked up on it, is much more convenient.

Visibility from Helm. Stand at the helm station. Can you see all 4 corners of the boat -- not on most production cats. Twin helms can help with this issue, but many production cats designed with twin helms in mind don't have full helm control (steering and engine controls) actually installed at both helms (see this on Privileges a lot).

Deck Security. All that deck space sure is nice for fair weather sailing, but think about how you will move about the deck in heavy weather. Where are hand holds/padeyes built in and where will you need to add them.

Ventilation. A monohull with a couple of big deck hatches is easy to turn into one long wind tunnel. Some cats, especially many FP's, are more challenging to ventilate well (the french apparently don't believe in ventilation...even newer FP designs have minimal ventilation in some cabins...especially aft cabins...those silly little round hatches sure are stylish though!).


....and the list goes on...
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Old 15-07-2012, 19:19   #22
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

The perfect cat is graceful, fast, agile and beautiful.

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Old 15-07-2012, 19:22   #23
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

the one without having a mortgage.
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Old 15-07-2012, 23:13   #24
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

1) 45 Foot.
2) Under 10 Tonne.
3) Twin forestays with furlers.
4) Inner removable Storm sail stay.
5) Composite hull. Carbon......
6) Twin diesel shaft drives.
7) Bridge helm and aft cockpit helm on Portside.
8) Owners version BUT only two head/shower units. 1 Port 1 Stb.
9) Boom furling on main.
10) Electric winches.
11) 800 to 1000 watts solar.
12) Inner side access to sugarscoops.
13) Raked sugar scoops.
14) Watermaker.
15) Full nav package reflecting current thinking.
16) Satphone.
17) Weather receiver with printout.
18) Davits with benches or racks.
19) Underwater lighting, fantastic on reefs.
20) SS anchor and chain ULTRA.
21) Small rope locker on each corner.
22) Diesel stove and oven.
23) Rotating ventilation hatches.
24) Complete awning, the awning rolls up and velcro's under boom.
25) White in colour in poly-u. (recoatable)
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Old 15-07-2012, 23:23   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us
1) 45 Foot.
2) Under 10 Tonne.
3) Twin forestays with furlers.
4) Inner removable Storm sail stay.
5) Composite hull. Carbon......
6) Twin diesel shaft drives.
7) Bridge helm and aft cockpit helm on Portside.
8) Owners version BUT only two head/shower units. 1 Port 1 Stb.
9) Boom furling on main.
10) Electric winches.
11) 800 to 1000 watts solar.
12) Inner side access to sugarscoops.
13) Raked sugar scoops.
14) Watermaker.
15) Full nav package reflecting current thinking.
16) Satphone.
17) Weather receiver with printout.
18) Davits with benches or racks.
19) Underwater lighting, fantastic on reefs.
20) SS anchor and chain ULTRA.
21) Small rope locker on each corner.
22) Diesel stove and oven.
23) Rotating ventilation hatches.
24) Complete awning, the awning rolls up and velcro's under boom.
25) White in colour in poly-u. (recoatable)
Have you managed to fit item 4 to your lagoon?
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Old 15-07-2012, 23:32   #26
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

I think it can be done with a striker running fore and aft beneath the anchor chain trough and a bridle above the trough near the cleats , the striker would have a double strut directly beneath the bridle similar to a spreader.

Remove and re-connect near front of house to an eye.

External halyard with a track for sheeting on edge of cabin......

Would be great to get the effort in close to the stick in a blow.

I'll toy with it some more
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Old 15-07-2012, 23:39   #27
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

26) Raymarine camera under radar to view reef entrances at plotter along with two in cockpit to scan for wascally pirates.
27) 2 inch o.d. black powder swivel cannon mounted at bow and stern to celebrate 4th July, birthdays, fog warnings, i intend to leave port and aforementioned wascals.....
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Old 16-07-2012, 01:13   #28
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

Quote:
22) Diesel stove and oven.
I'm hearing mixed reviews on these units. ie. not much good.
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Old 16-07-2012, 01:54   #29
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Re: Characteristics of the perfect cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by ausaviator View Post
I'm hearing mixed reviews on these units. ie. not much good.
Have been looking at Wallus brands , do you have some info?
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Old 16-07-2012, 03:15   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us
1) 45 Foot.
2) Under 10 Tonne.
3) Twin forestays with furlers.
4) Inner removable Storm sail stay.
5) Composite hull. Carbon......
6) Twin diesel shaft drives.
7) Bridge helm and aft cockpit helm on Portside.
8) Owners version BUT only two head/shower units. 1 Port 1 Stb.
9) Boom furling on main.
10) Electric winches.
11) 800 to 1000 watts solar.
12) Inner side access to sugarscoops.
13) Raked sugar scoops.
14) Watermaker.
15) Full nav package reflecting current thinking.
16) Satphone.
17) Weather receiver with printout.
18) Davits with benches or racks.
19) Underwater lighting, fantastic on reefs.
20) SS anchor and chain ULTRA.
21) Small rope locker on each corner.
22) Diesel stove and oven.
23) Rotating ventilation hatches.
24) Complete awning, the awning rolls up and velcro's under boom.
25) White in colour in poly-u. (recoatable)
Plus the ability to beach if need be,

Great list though
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