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Old 13-04-2011, 12:57   #376
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

I wouldn't knock yourself at all. All boats loose value, especially now. A "name brand" means a charter boat typically, and the brokers sell them with the expectation that they'll loose half their value in 5 years. I've head the brokers for FP and Moorings telling buyers that at the boat show">Annapolis boat show, "you can buy it for half of this after 5 years". The problem with "name brand" is there is a lot of competition as they are regularly cycled through the used boat market from charter companies which are ready to sell. They also aren't typically wanted for charter anymore, and most people don't want a personal boat with 4 head design. Another factor is banks aren't giving loans to anyone for anything. Donald Trump just bought a huge Virginia estate for 6 million that was formerly worth over 100 million. The banks would only accept cash. The same is true for vacation homes (which is really very closely linked to boats). 30% down minimum. So don't be too hard on yourself.
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Old 14-04-2011, 09:23   #377
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

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Originally Posted by SettingSail2009 View Post
Next time I will have a very different list of characteristics ... but I will still set sail with a cat ...

Andreas,

In light of your original post and given your experience, I think it would be interesting to know in what specific ways has your list changed?

Mike
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Old 15-04-2011, 05:15   #378
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

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Originally Posted by schoonerdog View Post
I wouldn't knock yourself at all. All boats loose value, especially now.
Thank you for your reassuring words. I'm not too, too concerned, because of the amazing journey I had I'm just saying that the boat isn't the instrumental part in having a great trip. The most important parts are: the people you go with and the places you decide to go to.

I'll be returning to the workforce soon. I've actually returned to school, to get my commercial Captain's papers, so in one year I can (legally) be a bridge officer (and in time Captain) on anything from a row-boat to a megaship. So next time I sail, I'll actually know how to use the sextant

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In light of your original post and given your experience, I think it would be interesting to know in what specific ways has your list changed?
Hi Mike,

If I look at my original list, this is how I would change it:

1. Size. Around 40-50 feet.
2. Visibility from inside when seated, is honestly not that important, because we never sat inside when we were moving. In the tropics this is a non-issue.
3. Good sailing performance is important, but not the most important thing. It honestly doesn't matter if I arrive a day or two later. I sailed on what was supposed to be an awesome fast catamaran, but I logged the same averages as monohulls or cats of the same lenght. In a straight down duel, I'd beat them, but not by leaps and bounds. When you're doing long sails, your boat is heavy, so you'll never set any records. The most important point is to find wind and utilize it.
4. A forward facing nav station inside (not important, because I hardly ever used it).
5. A good galley up. Super important. This helped us prepare food in conditions we otherwise wouldn't have.
6. A comfortable cockpit with good protection from the elements. Yes, a large cockpit is excellent. The larger the better. Good sun protection that's easy to use is also key. On my boat the cockpit was too small (I made a lot of friends) and the sun-protection was inadequate, but we jury-rigged some protection so it worked.
7. A high bridgedeck clearance. Important, but the shape and construction of the boat and how it rides the waves and is loaded is also important.
8. There's tons of space on top of the bimini and the dinghy. I would fill it with solar panels. I loved solar panels, but hated wind generators: They are overrated and loud.

A watermaker, while nice to have, is something I would do without. It never worked on my boat and I never got it to work, no matter how much money I poured into it. It was a huge frustration and it still didn't work when I sold the boat.

So to sum it up, my list now:

1. Size: 40 - 50 feet.
2. A functional galley up.
3. A large cockpit with proper sun protection.
4. Good sailing performance, but I wouldn't be seduced by bold claims.
5. As few technical "luxuries" as possible.
6. Tons of solar panels.
7. A good windless and a large anchor (and a couple of back-up ones).
8. No more than 2 heads.
9. Volvo or Yanmar diesel engines, if you have other brands getting spare parts is tough as Hell. I would no dare to go for electrical engines, knowing how tough it can be to get parts and trained help in exotic locations.

That's how my list would look now. A large interior is largely wasted when you're sailing in warm areas, so I would focus on having a properly laid out, outside area. I'd also like storage lockers that are easy to get to on the outside. I suffered with a lack of usable outside storage. I'd also have a larger dinghy and a proper engine on it. 5hp just doesn't cut it when you need to move around in big atolls, or want to go sight-seeing. 15hp is a minimum.

Besides that, don't spend all your savings on the boat. Save money on the boat and use it to go cruising
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Old 15-04-2011, 08:41   #379
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

that's exactly what we've found over the last 15 years of so being on a cat and cruising. Absolutely exactly. One thing important too is sails. Knowing how to easily use a screacher, or a spinnaker is the difference between motor sailing and sailing on longer passages.
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Old 15-04-2011, 10:00   #380
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

Words of wisdom all. While some points are a matter of personal preference I think any prospective cat-buyer would do well to pay particular attention to point #3.

Your comment on the boat not being the critical factor in a cruise is spot on. How often have I wished I had picked up a Wharram for cheap and gone sailing rather than spend years of blood and sweat to build a custom boat.

Mike
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Old 15-04-2011, 19:12   #381
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

Quote:
Originally Posted by SettingSail2009 View Post
A watermaker, while nice to have, is something I would do without. It never worked on my boat and I never got it to work, no matter how much money I poured into it. It was a huge frustration and it still didn't work when I sold the boat.

So to sum it up, my list now:

1. Size: 40 - 50 feet.
2. A functional galley up.
3. A large cockpit with proper sun protection.
4. Good sailing performance, but I wouldn't be seduced by bold claims.
5. As few technical "luxuries" as possible.
6. Tons of solar panels.
7. A good windless and a large anchor (and a couple of back-up ones).
8. No more than 2 heads.
9. Volvo or Yanmar diesel engines, if you have other brands getting spare parts is tough as Hell. I would no dare to go for electrical engines, knowing how tough it can be to get parts and trained help in exotic locations.

That's how my list would look now. A large interior is largely wasted when you're sailing in warm areas, so I would focus on having a properly laid out, outside area. I'd also like storage lockers that are easy to get to on the outside. I suffered with a lack of usable outside storage. I'd also have a larger dinghy and a proper engine on it. 5hp just doesn't cut it when you need to move around in big atolls, or want to go sight-seeing. 15hp is a minimum.

Besides that, don't spend all your savings on the boat. Save money on the boat and use it to go cruising
Andreas,

You are failly close to my required features for a cruising cat also although I believe a watermaker is desirable as it allows one to carry more fuel so as not to be beholden to seeking fuel in every next port.

There are reliable watermakers out there although not the brand supplied on Fastcat's apparently as indicated by other owners. In the tropics cockpit sun protection is No 1 and a well designed hardtop will handle solar panels and rain collection.

It is difficult to expect to get ones money back on a brand new cat keeping it for a short time unless it was a sort after brand. Bying a new vessel one would need to keep it for 5 years or so to get the best return unless a highly sort after brand.

Would you purchase another Fastcat??
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Old 15-04-2011, 19:28   #382
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

Andreas, I really hope you don't engage the "Fastcat" questions.

I like your list. We have a galley down but a bar area up and our food prep is done in the bar area. I like that as we can shut the doors on the galley and get at it later.

We also just got back from an 9 day vacation in the St. Martin area and found the water maker invaluable. We had 9 people on board and used water like - it was nothing. I installed a 1000 gpd SK and am really happy with it. There are no electronics on it.

The one thing I would have liked is a separate, large shower stall like the SF50 has.
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Old 15-04-2011, 20:06   #383
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

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Andreas, I really hope you don't engage the "Fastcat" questions.

.

A reasonable question to a former owner!!!!
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Old 15-04-2011, 20:24   #384
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

And a reasonable request from someone who is so dam sick and tired of the Gideion bashing he can't take it any more of it.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:27   #385
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

Sorry for a very late reply ... easter followed by exams are taking a huge toll on my time ... Having said that I should be studying now as well

Quote:
Originally Posted by schoonerdog View Post
Knowing how to easily use a screacher, or a spinnaker is the difference between motor sailing and sailing on longer passages.
Absolutely. My gennakers were worth their weight in gold ... in particular when I learned how to use them properly. It saved me tons of money on fuel and gave us beautiful "silent" crossings.

Quote:
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How often have I wished I had picked up a Wharram for cheap and gone sailing rather than spend years of blood and sweat to build a custom boat.
I hear you and couldn't agree more. I won't make the same mistake again... At least hopefully!

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There are reliable watermakers out there although not the brand supplied on Fastcat's apparently as indicated by other owners.
I've heard talks of such fabled creations I have yet to get my hands on one.

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Would you purchase another Fastcat??

I'll answer To be honest I doubt it, because of the price-tag. If you look at the "revised" list I made above, it doesn't exactly scream performance catamaran, which most people would consider the FastCat. I'd rather spend less money on a boat and more on enjoying the places I sailed to ...

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We also just got back from an 9 day vacation in the St. Martin area and found the water maker invaluable. We had 9 people on board and used water like - it was nothing. I installed a 1000 gpd SK and am really happy with it. There are no electronics on it.
If it works it's awesome, the problem is that once you get used to it, it's almost impossible to try to ration if the infernal thing breaks. I've done 2 x 21-day crossings with 5 people onboard without a watermaker ... Sure, it takes some getting used to, but it really wasn't that difficult once people got into it.

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The one thing I would have liked is a separate, large shower stall like the SF50 has.
Really? ... I think in the 2 years I had AI, I only used the shower inside twice... and that's not because I didn't shower!
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:39   #386
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

Yes, really. In those two years did you cruise with your 14 year old daughter and 5 of your mixed sex family friends on board? I don't feel comfortable letting it all hang out on the stern with my family drinking a beer 8' away - and I know my wife wouldn't either.

If I was by myself - well - I'd add my story to the "sailing naked" thread.
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Old 11-05-2011, 11:51   #387
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

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Yes, really. In those two years did you cruise with your 14 year old daughter and 5 of your mixed sex family friends on board?
No kids ... yet ... So that's a negative. I did however sail with a mixed crew of 5 and we were definitely not the hippie kind of commune were clothing was optional. The only time I've gone skinny dipping nude would be when I was hammered. No, we kept it PG and showered with our bathing suits on. On passages you could do a nude shower if you wanted to, as long as you warned the rest of the crew, so they could chill out elsewhere.
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Old 11-05-2011, 17:05   #388
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

Thanks Andreas for your replies.

Cheers
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Old 11-05-2011, 18:06   #389
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

water maker needed for sure. Probably 3rd on the list after engines and Navigation. I went through 700 liters in a couple days with 4 guests! A salt water bath is nasty in hot climates sticky salt rash and sweat way more. not to mention bad for your eyes hair and other parts when on your skin for days. Also install a UV light to kill any micro organisms. A $100 item. Some of the best water I have tasted!
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Old 11-05-2011, 23:45   #390
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Re: Characteristics of a Circumnavigating Cat

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water maker needed for sure. Probably 3rd on the list after engines and Navigation. I went through 700 liters in a couple days with 4 guests!
It might be for you, but for me and my list, the watermaker is way down in the luxuries section. Prior to almost every passage I've been on I've always seen other boats delay leaving, because their watermaker wasn't working. Finding qualified help to work on it, not to mention parts is a major hassle once you leave your home base. Since we were able to be careful and inventive with our water usage, it wasn't a problem.

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A salt water bath is nasty in hot climates sticky salt rash and sweat way more. not to mention bad for your eyes hair and other parts when on your skin for days.
Actually not true at all. You would think so, because most people have that experience from lounging on beaches. The key to avoiding sticky skin and salt rash is to towel off immediately after coming out of the water. If you allow the salt water to air dry, then yeah, you get the sticky skin, but if you towel off, you don't. Everyone that sailed with me (30+ people) in the course of two years were actually amazed at how well it worked with salt water showers. No salt rashes or anything of the kind.
You are right about it not being great for hair, long hair in particular, but by allowing the girls to rinse their hair with fresh water a couple of times a week, that issue was avoided.

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Also install a UV light to kill any micro organisms. A $100 item. Some of the best water I have tasted!
We installed a normal water filter with a good replaceable active coal filter. We had great water and were able to fill water on all the islands we went to.
As a side note, filling water on the islands is a great way to meet the locals.
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