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Old 19-06-2008, 10:27   #16
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Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
I will ask my technical staff to take pictures of the so called technical stuff but there is not much to see since we use a buss cabling system since hull number 3 but I have attached some pictures of number 002
The Green Motion system is all plug and play wired so all wiring is in a rubber tube not visible and connected with mill spec connectors very boring but safe.

Greetings

Gideon

Very nice quality work!
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Old 19-06-2008, 11:28   #17
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Originally Posted by ldrhawke View Post
29,000 lbs fully loaded?
Yes with an empty weight of 12.760
1000 lbs of water and diesel and 4 crew for a total of 1000 makes a total sail away weigth of 14.760 so you can take all the beer and wine you can possible think of and still be light weight

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Old 19-06-2008, 12:36   #18
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Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
Yes with an empty weight of 12.760
1000 lbs of water and diesel and 4 crew for a total of 1000 makes a total sail away weigth of 14.760 so you can take all the beer and wine you can possible think of and still be light weight

Greetings
Your numbers make Chris White's Atlantic 48 really look like they a winner in the weight/performance category.



The Atlantic 48 has a longer water line, the Empty weight is only 10.75 T; with 3/4 ton load carrying capability per inch of immersion; or with 2,000 lb of water, fuel, beer, and crew. For a total sail away weight of 11.75 T. With an inch immersion per 3/4 ton and lighter weight, it can probably carry more load than the FastCat 455

That makes the FastCat455 nearly 6,000 lbs heavier than a 3' longer boat, the larger Atlantic 48, which is constructed with heavier epoxy/tri-axial glass, ATC Core-cell foam, and carbon fiber construction. Infact, The 455 is about the same weight as the much larger Atlantic 55.

I'm really surprised that the FastCat is so much heavier with all of your tricks, light construction materials, building them on weigh cells, and effort to remove weight in the FastCats.
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Old 19-06-2008, 13:21   #19
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It must be me who cannot calculate but a empty weight of 10.75 tons is 4 tons heavier than the empty weight of the FastCat 455 or has the Atlantic lost 4 tons in weight ?
The maximum allowable weigth of the FastCat 455 is 13250 kilo or 13.2 tons metric , that gives a a payload of 7.4 tons.
The Atlantic is actually only 1. ft and 11 inches longer so not 3 ft and the immersion rate of the FastCat 455 is 209 kilos per cm or a little over half a ton per inch.That makes the sail away weigth with the same load as the Atlantic 6.7 tons, has the atlantic got lead in its daggerboards ?
I think you have got your calculations wrong.

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Old 19-06-2008, 13:27   #20
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P.S.the Atlantic is a fantastic design and an excellent sailing cat
Just do not like the front cockpit but everyones to its own.
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Old 19-06-2008, 14:01   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
Yes with an empty weight of 12.760
1000 lbs of water and diesel and 4 crew for a total of 1000 makes a total sail away weigth of 14.760 so you can take all the beer and wine you can possible think of and still be light weight

Greetings
Sorry....in the US we don't use periods. I read your 12.760 as 12.76 tons. Right or wrong, we use a coma and not a period to show 12,760 as lbs. I should have caught it with the crew and water/fuel comments.

But, I'm still confused. You say you have max payload of 7.4 tons because your boat only weighs 5.8 tons ready to sail and allows for and additional 1" immersion per 1/2 ton of load up to 13.2 tons metric.

Does that mean the acceptable full load of 13.2 tons will have nearly an additional 15 inches of immersion under sail and under full 7.4 ton payload, compared to an empty boat.
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Old 19-06-2008, 14:17   #22
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Originally Posted by fastcat435 View Post
.......................
The Atlantic is actually only 1. ft and 11 inches longer so not 3 ft .......................

Greetings

Gideon
Are you sure? You list the 455 at 45'11" and the Atlantic 48 is 48'7". Actually 2'8" longer.
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Old 19-06-2008, 14:20   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldrhawke View Post
Sorry....in the US we don't use periods. I read your 12.760 as 12.76 tons. Right or wrong, we use a coma and not a period to show 12,760 as lbs. I should have caught it with the crew and water/fuel comments.

But, I'm still confused. You say you have max payload of 7.4 tons because your boat only weighs 5.8 tons ready to sail and allows for and additional 1" immersion per 1/2 ton of load up to 13.2 tons metric.

Does that mean the acceptable full load of 13.2 tons will have nearly an additional 15 inches of immersion under sail and under full 7.4 ton payload, compared to an empty boat.
At Light load the immersion rate is 209 kilos or 460 lbs per cm or 1300 lbs per inch but once the FastCat is immersed at 50 % of its load the immersion rate has already changed to 380 kilo per cm since the hulls widen and lenghten in the water line with a full load the cat has gone down 11.5 inches but that never happens since it is almost impossible to put that much load into her.
In the owners manual we advise not to put in more load than 5000 kilo or 11200 lbs as payload and she still sail very well.
I have however tested the FastCat 435 at it max. allowable load
for well over 10000 NM and she still sailed well.
Greetings

Gideon
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Old 19-06-2008, 15:42   #24
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You state that the max load is 7.4 tons, yet the CE certificate states 5000 kgs or 5 tons, who should we believe, the salesman or the certifying authority?

Your initial posting stated:
As of yesterday the FastCat 455 Green Motion is CE A certified ,this is the first sailing yacht with retractable electric propulsion and regeneration to receive this certification.
After extensive control of the Green Motion system we have received the certificate .


I read this to mean that the Green Motion system has been tested by the relevant CE approval authorities, and that they have now approved the green motion system. Is this correct? If so, what standard, ISO or other have they used to give this approval? What tests did they require? It sounds like propulsion systems need seperate approval.


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Alan
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Old 21-06-2008, 05:36   #25
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[quote=Nordic cat;174064]You state that the max load is 7.4 tons, yet the CE certificate states 5000 kgs or 5 tons, who should we believe, the salesman or the certifying authority?

The CE papers have not been changed yet to the new max payload since who cares if the payload ex water and diesel is 5000 or 7400 kilo?
In both cases it is more than enough
The actual payload is 7400 kilo ex full water and diesel tanks.
we advise to keep the FastCat lightweight or a max payload of 5000 ex water and diesel to keep the fast and lively although according to the CE norm it can be 7400 kilo. CE does not look at sailing pleasure , just at safety norms and buoyancy factors.
In the Green Motion a 280 kilo generator is already included in the weight since most customers will want this gen set.
Yes Both the FastCat Green Motion and the system have been approved for CE by the Dutch CE authority.
No the propusion system does not need a separate approval it needs to conform to Iso norms and to IP 68 to make sure all electrical on the outside is waterproof even under pressure .
Giving you an example a standard yanmar diesel with sail drive is not separately approved since it will never be used while not in a boat.


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Gideon
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Old 21-06-2008, 05:38   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ldrhawke View Post
Are you sure? You list the 455 at 45'11" and the Atlantic 48 is 48'7". Actually 2'8" longer.
Simon Bongers told me the 48 was a touch under 48 ft but that might have been changed in both cases the FastCat is the lighter cat with thne higher payload.
greetings
gideon
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Old 21-06-2008, 08:11   #27
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Actually we continue to attempt to compare apples to oranges. Your 435, now stretched a couple of feet in hull length to be a 455, is a relatively small boat compared to most Chris White Atlantics. The Atlantic 48 is physically much much bigger boats and over 2' wider and carries 50% more sail area.

Your FastCat 435 is dimensionally is almost identical to an Atlantic 42 in width, water line length, and sail area. Although your 435 surprisingly draws nearly a foot more draft for being 2 tons lighter.

We can talk numbers all day, and accomplish little, the proof is in actual sailing weight and real life sailing performance, which is what all this keeping it light talk is about anyway. This big old heavy Atlantic 42 shown below is sailing at over 20 knots, not surfing down a wave, and has a stated displacement of 15,500 lbs by the builder. You state your Fastcat 435 and 455 weigh nearly 2 tons less in the water than an Atlantic 42, so 435' and 455's should be performance screamers.

Do you have any photos like this or comments from Fastcat owners as quoted below? If FastCats are as light as you state when under sail they should perform even better. You have stated in a "Cruising World" write up that the max speed of your 435 is only 14 knots when loaded to 14,000 lbs.

"Weight is kept to a minimum, and the performance data included with the boat spec sheets graphically illustrate what happens to potential boat speed when you pile on weight: It drops from a max of about 14 knots at normal half-load displacement of 14,000 pounds to 10 knots all up with full tanks, full complement, and all the goodies heaving it up to 22,000 pounds."



“Sailing with my children we reached 21 knots boatspeed under main
and jib in about 26 knots of wind, it’s incredible”. Dave Penfield, ATLANTIC 42 owner.

Below is a another photo from an owner on a big old heavy Atlantic 48.


Off topic....do you ever have complaints about bridgedeck clearance wave slap from the large low protrusions in the hull for your double width beds? I just cannot imagine it isn't a problem pointing up in a heavy breeze and 4' to 5' waves.
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Old 21-06-2008, 12:09   #28
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[QUOTE=ldrhawke;174608]Actually we continue to attempt to compare apples to oranges. Your 435, now stretched a couple of feet in hull length to be a 455, is a relatively small boat compared to most Chris White Atlantics. The Atlantic 48 is physically much much bigger boats and over 2' wider and carries 50% more sail area.

Your FastCat 435 is dimensionally is almost identical to an Atlantic 42 in width, water line length, and sail area. Although your 435 surprisingly draws nearly a foot more draft for being 2 tons lighter.

We can talk numbers all day, and accomplish little, the proof is in actual sailing weight and real life sailing performance, which is what all this keeping it light talk is about anyway. This big old heavy Atlantic 42 shown below is sailing at over 20 knots, not surfing down a wave, and has a stated displacement of 15,500 lbs by the builder. You state your Fastcat 435 and 455 weigh nearly 2 tons less in the water than an Atlantic 42, so 435' and 455's should be performance screamers.

Do you have any photos like this or comments from Fastcat owners as quoted below? If FastCats are as light as you state when under sail they should perform even better. You have stated in a "Cruising World" write up that the max speed of your 435 is only 14 knots when loaded to 14,000 lbs.

"Weight is kept to a minimum, and the performance data included with the boat spec sheets graphically illustrate what happens to potential boat speed when you pile on weight: It drops from a max of about 14 knots at normal half-load displacement of 14,000 pounds to 10 knots all up with full tanks, full complement, and all the goodies heaving it up to 22,000 pounds."


“Sailing with my children we reached 21 knots boatspeed under main
and jib in about 26 knots of wind, it’s incredible”. Dave Penfield, ATLANTIC 42 owner.

Below is a another photo from an owner on a big old heavy Atlantic 48.


Off topic....do you ever have complaints about bridgedeck clearance wave slap from the large low protrusions in the hull for your double width beds? I just cannot imagine it isn't a Hallo IDRhawke

I did not do the write up in the cruising world
I do know that we have hit a top speed of 26.9 knots on almost flat water with 34 knots of wind 130 degrees app.
The best day ( 24 hours )was good for a little over 440 NM
The draft is almost 2 ft more with the keel but 4 inches less in the dagger board equipped version.
The bridge deck slamming is almost non exhistent and that is largly due to the light weight so the waves gett followed better.
The protrusions have 550 mm clearance with a half loaded boat and that is plenty.
Unless you load up your complete family , full water , full diesel and all the foad and stores for 2 months on the water you will never reach 22,000 lbs.
Just calculate with me
an empty weight for the electric version of 5800 kilo or 12,800 lbs
75 us gal water 280 kg or 600 lbs
75 us gal diesel 230 kg or 500 lbs
and 4 crew o 550 kg or 1200 lbs
makes a total of 1060 or 3300 lbs
for a total of 6860 or 16,100 lbs total weight now if you make an ocean crossing add another 800 kilo or 2000 lbs and you are still 4000 lbs short of our recommended weight

I have attached 2 pictures taken during a test sail by a customer of 21.5 knots , unfortunately when moving at 26.9 I was holding all the lines and no opportunity for a picture but it will come.

Greetings

Gideon
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Old 21-06-2008, 12:11   #29
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P.s. I did not know that big old atlantics 48 exhisted since they where only first produced 5 years ago and I have never seeen a heavy build one? I will watch out

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Old 21-06-2008, 13:09   #30
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P.S.Just do not like the front cockpit but everyones to its own.
Gideon, I am with you on this one, it would be a Fastcat 455 for me anyday, more high tech, some great ideas, fast, roomy, good looking, well laid out and nice large safe and element friendly aft cockpit, just got to win the lottery
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