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Old 17-06-2008, 04:01   #16
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Given the same sail area and loaded weight the speed difference will be very small
However with a cat no ballast is needed so it is possible to make the cat with a lower weight and thus the speed adavantage comes in and can be considerable.
I calculate my longer trips at an avarage cruising speed of 9 knots but in general do better than that.
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Old 17-06-2008, 08:15   #17
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Given the same sail area and loaded weight the speed difference will be very small
However with a cat no ballast is needed so it is possible to make the cat with a lower weight and thus the speed adavantage comes in and can be considerable.
I calculate my longer trips at an avarage cruising speed of 9 knots but in general do better than that.
Hi Gideon,

Your customers seem to be a bit more conservative, take a look here, they seem to be doing around the 150 miles a day on a good day, which is probably comparable to a monohull of the same length.

Nieuwe pagina 1


Look at the september 2007 log on the far right of the page.


9 knot averages as you claim are probably a bit optimistic, unless specifying load, sea state and windspeed/direction.

But you are in the boat selling business

regards

Alan
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Old 18-06-2008, 13:37   #18
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Can't remember where I saw this but some time ago someone did something of a meta-analysis of passage times on, I believe, the ARC. They concluded somewhat surprisingly that it was waterline length rather than number of hulls that had the greatest effect on passage times. Not included in this analysis was crew comfort, which I imagine was significantly better on the cats.

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Old 18-06-2008, 14:19   #19
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Mike,

The post you're looking for was made by Joli, over on the Multihull/Monohul Survey thread:

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...I would tend to disagree with Swagman about passage speeds for a cat. Cruising cats are simply not that fast. The passage times for the 2007 ARC shows that Swagman finished with a Catana 471. Passage speeds respective were 6.82 and 6.75 or a 5 hour difference over 2600 miles. That was trade wind sailing ideally suited to the multi hull but only one cat averaged 200 miles per day (a Lagoon 67) versus nine monos that made 200 miles per day. I did post Heineken Reg times in an earlier post and the Gunboats seemed to get around the course in about the same time as similar well sailed monos of the same size.

IMO, comfort goes to the cat, speed is a wash, a mono has ultimate stability, and some cats will be livable if inverted.

Every boat is a compromise, choose from the matrix that works best for you.
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Old 18-06-2008, 14:27   #20
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The ARC results I've seen would tend to back up your statement. Tradewind sailing seems to be deep enough that waterline length is the key speed determining factor.

Hud, how do you find that so quickly?



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Can't remember where I saw this but some time ago someone did something of a meta-analysis of passage times on, I believe, the ARC. They concluded somewhat surprisingly that it was waterline length rather than number of hulls that had the greatest effect on passage times. Not included in this analysis was crew comfort, which I imagine was significantly better on the cats.

Mike
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Old 18-06-2008, 14:28   #21
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Mike may also be thinking of this little study:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...alue-6537.html

ID
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Old 18-06-2008, 16:05   #22
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Mike may also be thinking of this little study:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...alue-6537.html

ID
I had not seen that.

It is great.

Thanks.
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Old 18-06-2008, 17:41   #23
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Both are close (and interesting) but the piece I refer to was in a sailing mag. I wish I could remember the source since it is an interesting topic for discussion.

Mike
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Old 18-06-2008, 18:43   #24
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There's an article in Yachting Monthly that says they have such data. However, I'm not going to spend the 4.50 pounds to buy it. If anybody has it and would care to give a summary of it, I'd be interested in seeing it.

ID
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Old 18-06-2008, 19:20   #25
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However, there are places and times I would not take one and where a mono would clearly be the better option.
ID
Drifter, could you elaborate, please? I have read many comments similar to yours in various places, but never an explanation as to WHEN and WHERE a cat might not be ideal. I know they are good for Caribbean island hopping due to the shallow draft, stuff like that. Just not when they aren't great.

Thanks!
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Old 18-06-2008, 20:31   #26
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If you check what the poster owns and sails, you can precisely predict what he is going to say most of the time! We can usually find (and cherish) substantiating citations somewhere or fall back on "most cruisers have found.... or "its common knowlege that..." No one here is more guilty of that than I, because I did it for a living! It has something to do with human nature being reluctant to say "I bought this stupid boat in a fit of misguided optimism and it has sucked me dry, can't go to weather any better than pond scum, and won't be sold til a worse fool than I comes along!"

Charles Kanter is a valued friend and a man of indellible opinion, but that just means I don't agree with everything he holds to be gospel truth. Get his "Cruising In Catamarans" at Sailco Press and don't get bogged down in the typos and bad editing. Its a pretty good summary of the attributes of a wide range of cats, valuable because of a consistant viewpoint.

The boat he has owned and sailed for years seems to be the brightest star in the firmament. Hmmmmm.
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Old 24-06-2008, 06:24   #27
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My brother did three years on a cat. I've yet to start. From his experience sppeds over 8 kts the bow falls off the end of waves in a tiring way. OK for a few hours or to run out of storm paths but not cruising. However he got close to three hundred miles a day several times and reckoned 200 to 250 most days. Even light brezzes give a gentle 100 to 150 a day. Direction is the other problem but your cruising, so change the destination if the weather wont play fair! Or just stop off where you end up, re-provision, have a good kip and see what the winds like the next day. Don't just flog to windward because that's where the planned route goes.
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Old 25-06-2008, 10:44   #28
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I have read many times, and experienced myself. That most of your time cruising is at anchor. If this is so then a cat is a huge plus. It has space, privacy, storage, and pretty much flat in any anchorage. There are exceptions to most rules also.

Even if it were true that a cat is slow, and can't go to windward. Then at least in anchorages it shines. When the wind picks up to 25knts +. A same length mono will out sail me. It can shoulder the waves much easier. If I fall off I will make better speed, and once again we become close in our time making a destination.

Everything changes though when the wind gets near the beam, and aft of it. You need to know where you will go, and what prevailing weather you will encounter. If it is aft of the beam then a cat has a distinct advantage. Just as a mono does when pounding into weather, and waves close hauled. Given they are similiar in length.

What ever boat you choose. My advice is get the longest water line you can afford, and afford to maintain.....BEST WISHES in a tough decision
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Old 25-06-2008, 11:32   #29
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We sail a mono around Narragansett Bay and beyond, though are seriously thinking about getting a cat. I can't for the life of me imagine getting rid of the mono, so good thing it's a "good old boat"/vintage some would say, so we may keep it as well. Anyway, not to get too commercial here but one of the best experiences we had was to join one of Cruising World Magazine's Adventure Charters (with Carol and Peter King) -- every two years they hold one in the BVI. You can learn how to sail 40+ foot cats in great company (or have fun even if you already know how to sail them) and get a good feel for whether you like them. You can go by yourself, with a mate, or with a group. Highly recommend it - best vacation of my life. Good luck.
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Old 25-06-2008, 23:20   #30
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At Anchor -- yes an important plus for a cat - but this is offset by the extra cost of the occasional need to be alongside in a marina (something that becomes very important if you go the lightweight very long hull, but minimal accommodation and very fast route).

Beam reach -- good point of sail which may offset the reduced windward capability - to be fair, the reduced windward capability is a more significant problem for very old design catamarans like the catalac. (I am not denigrating the design, I love them and owned a 9m for 21 years, but must be realistic.)

Down wind performance. -- Lots of information about other points of sail, praise and plaudits, but what really makes the difference to me is that as a long distance cruiser you are looking for routes which are utilising the trade winds, and this means downwind sailing (if you have got it right). The point of sail that I detest in a monohull is that cyclic roll during downwind sailing. If for no other reason, and personally I have a lot of other reasons, the ability of a cat to sail downwind without a roll that would create a psychotic response in the sanest individual illustrates the single most important reason for buying a cat.

For most women, the ability to move around the vessel and do things without being heeled over at a worrying angle, comes high on their list of decision points. A large uncluttered galley decent cooker, fridge and freezer so that they feel comfortable, in what a lot of women still view as their own preserve, is also a valid statement.

If I am being PC, I would merely comment that the domestic capabilities of a cat far outweigh those provided in a half boat.
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