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Old 04-02-2016, 12:34   #16
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

I posted response yesterday that speaks to your question at bit at:

Catamaran Storm Tactics | sailingohana

To be fair they can but not their strong suit.

Feel free to private message if you would like to talk about further :-) have a great day!
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Old 04-02-2016, 13:24   #17
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

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Originally Posted by Looking4Neptune View Post
The Catana pointed better, often getting AWA better than 40, but the daggerboards are not to be used at speeds over about 5 knots. .
Really? 5 knots? I start to reduce (but not fully raise) daggerboard at around 8.5 knots, as I think the drag cost starts to outweigh the lift benefit.
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Old 04-02-2016, 14:19   #18
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

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Originally Posted by Looking4Neptune View Post
but the daggerboards are not to be used at speeds over about 5 knots. .
Why? I have been sailing on a similar sized daggerboard cat to windward at 16 knots and the daggers up made a highly significant difference to VMG, highly. Over 10 knots boat speed pulling up the windward board is probably okay, but there should not be a reason to pull all boards up to windward, unless it is light air and you want to sail above you mark to increase apparent wind but induce leeway to slide onto the waypoint.
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Old 04-02-2016, 14:34   #19
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

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Originally Posted by akprb View Post
I posted response yesterday that speaks to your question at bit at:

Catamaran Storm Tactics | sailingohana

To be fair they can but not their strong suit.

Feel free to private message if you would like to talk about further :-) have a great day!

All cat's need 15 knots of wind to get going? Maybe you need to sail on more cat's. Around 15 knots wind is when I start to think about reefing.
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Old 04-02-2016, 15:21   #20
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

The suggestion from Catana is to not have the boards FULLY down at 8kt, but this does not mean to completely retract the boards.
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Old 04-02-2016, 20:02   #21
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

For my boat (basically catana 401)

2/3 boards at 8 knots
1/2 at 9
1/3 at 10 knots

Thats per the manual.

speed through water not SOG

Unless i want to point up for more apparent wind and induce leeway, then I raise the boards earlier or even alltogether - an often missed advantage of boards.
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Old 04-02-2016, 20:16   #22
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

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Unless i want to point up for more apparent wind and induce leeway, then I raise the boards earlier or even alltogether - an often missed advantage of boards.
Absolutely. the ability to increase apparent wind and induce leeway to get a better VMG is often overlooked and also often not understood.
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Old 04-02-2016, 20:57   #23
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

I've got a few hours on them ;-)

Just two weeks ago took a new owner with a Custom Chris White 2011 55' cat on a quick run from Jupiter Fl to West End and back in 48 hours.

On the return we had 10 knots true and he wanted to see how well she would go to weather. She did to a degree but it want fast or fun. Yes forward cockpit, boards, spectra everything.

VOG a more important metric and reaching at higher speeds likely to get you there faster, more comfortably and safer.

Spent 3 months cruising a Catana 471 which was the best of the bunch.

Crossing the Pacific, sailing around NZ and back and forth to Tonga/Fiji we just avoided going to weather :-)


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Old 04-02-2016, 21:15   #24
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

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we just avoided going to weather :-)

This is what cruisers do.
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Old 04-02-2016, 22:36   #25
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

This is what's so great about this forum. I learn stuff all the time.


Now I've learned that I'm not a cruiser. Lived on board virtually every day for 6 years, sailed 27,000 miles, but not a cruiser, apparently.


Because I actually LIKE sailing to windward. When the conditions are right, ie ~10-15 knots breeze, reasonable sea state, I REALLY LIKE sailing to windward. Far more than sailing downwind in the same conditions.


And we do a bit of it. From Princess Charlotte bay down to about Lady Musgrave island last year. Lizard island - Hervey bay the year before. About 800 miles to windward, each.
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Old 04-02-2016, 22:51   #26
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

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Originally Posted by Barra View Post
For my boat (basically catana 401)

2/3 boards at 8 knots
1/2 at 9
1/3 at 10 knots

Thats per the manual.
Sounds more realistic!
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Old 05-02-2016, 02:23   #27
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

Quote:
Originally Posted by akprb View Post
I've got a few hours on them ;-)

Just two weeks ago took a new owner with a Custom Chris White 2011 55' cat on a quick run from Jupiter Fl to West End and back in 48 hours.

On the return we had 10 knots true and he wanted to see how well she would go to weather. She did to a degree but it want fast or fun. Yes forward cockpit, boards, spectra everything.
.....
Spent 3 months cruising a Catana 471 which was the best of the bunch.

...
Put some numbers here to get a better reference. I like Chris White designs. That means that the Catana pointed better than the Chris White cat?
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Old 05-02-2016, 02:55   #28
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

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Put some numbers here to get a better reference. I like Chris White designs. That means that the Catana pointed better than the Chris White cat?
i know that is bad but mine does 7kn in 11 kn true wind at 50 true angle. At least not all 30 ft monos overtake me any more.
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Old 05-02-2016, 04:47   #29
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Lagoon 440 and Jeanneau 43 sailing to Wind

Cat vs mono of +/- similar size sailing to wind: here's my two cents, based on about 5 days of tacking between Panama and the Galapagos.

We left Las Perlas together with the Jeanneau 43. Her captain was an experienced sailor who loved to hand steer and fine tune his sails. Just a couple on board the Jeanneau, when we had stocked on everything for the five of us (believing that food, diesel, etc would be twice as expensive in French Polynesia - which turned out to be a big mistake, food is way better and about the same price in FP if you don't indulge in wine, beer, and imported French cheese). We left with 1800 liters of water (including 600 liters of drinking water in 5-liter bottles), 850 liters of diesel + gasoline, enough cooking gas for 5 months, about 300 kgs of dry foods and cans, 300 cans of beer, 40 bottles of wine, etc. In 4 years we have never been as heavy as during that crossing.

Typically, you tack the first 2/3 or 3/4 of the way to the Galapagos, as the wind comes from the SW, exactly where you want to go. We assumed that the Jeanneau would be faster and would point much better than us in these conditions, especially as it was a model with a deep keel. We left the Gulf of Panama with about 15 knots, and the wind rose to 30-35 knots in the next few days. We said goodbye, trusting that they would arrive to the Galapagos at least a day before us.

The Jeanneau 43 would indeed point 5-10 degrees better than us, but we were faster. As a result, we stayed within radio contact (15-20 NM) for 5 days. As we approached the coast of Ecuador, the wind started to calm down a bit and to come a bit more from the SSW, then more and more South as we were approaching the Galapagos. As the difference in speed between us became greater, we lost radio contact but kept in touch through satellite phone. On day 7 we were already 100 NM ahead of them. We arrived in Isabella after 8 days, they arrived 30 hours after us.

Sailing against the wind (between 15 and 35 knots) our full-to-the-brim Lagoon 440 managed to keep up for 5 days with a +/- similar size monohull.
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Old 05-02-2016, 05:09   #30
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Re: Cats Sailing to Wind

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Originally Posted by arsenelupiga View Post
i know that is bad but mine does 7kn in 11 kn true wind at 50 true angle. At least not all 30 ft monos overtake me any more.
That is not bad at all for that type of boat and the performance of monos vary greatly with the boat design.

Monte has already posted information that confirms that performance. I was asking about Chris White cat and the comparison with a similar sized Catana
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