Cats - Condos or boats?

[henryv]

I don't think you will find much difference in the bridge clearance between the Voyage 380 and the Leopard 38 - added clearance would translate into greater overall height and they have very similar profiles - see attached pic. The new Leopard 40 I believe has slightly more clearance.

[Talbot]

Pity Makai is not talking at the moment cause he could give us the answer.

[RandyAbernethy]

Limited Internet cafe access in Venezuela perhaps.

[Moby Dick]

Drifter, I think your problem is that every boat is a series of compromises. e.g. The designers dont put the lumps and bumps underneath for fun, they do it in an attempt to get more space but still have a low-ish profile. Wrong compromise in your (an my) case, but OK for coastal use I guess.

Dont forget there is also the custom design or semi-custom options. If you dont like a specific fitting (eg a switch panel for instance) I am sure the smaller manufacturers would change it for you. You can't change the overall hull design of course (well not on a semi-custom anyway) but you can add/delete shelves cupboards, workrooms and the like.

Talbot, as we have seen, a view of the transom does not really tell what the true bridgedeck clerance (including lumps and bumps) is. But as you say, bidgedeck height has been discussed elsewhere.

How about a new design question: quality monohulls often have lots of provision for through-flow permanenet ventilation - Dorads, ventilators and such. I have not seen much obvious provision on any of the cats I have looked at. Have I missed it or is it not a problem? Are Dorads not needed? Is condenstaion a problem?

[Talbot]

Cant talk about other cats, but air flow in my catalac is superb.

[RandyAbernethy]

I've found the cats I've been on to have really good flow in each hull. The forward cabin feeds the flow right through to the aft cabin exit (especially if you use a scoop up front). Monos often have a tougher time because of all of the additional space and tapering beam in my experience. I've run across a few quarter berths that were hard to get flow to.

[gosstyla]

Vents are in the lower part of the forward face of the bridgedeck on my cat that ventilate the master and guest cabins. I have not seen this arrangement on any other boat.

[Llamedos]

Int Drifter commented on the switch panel access to the BB42, since I have first hand experience I can give you a bit more insight. The access is through the wardrobe (hanging locker) in the aft port cabin, the back of the wardrobe has another door that opens to give access to the space at the rear of the switch panel. Firstly it may be a bit of pain to empty a wardrobe to gain panel access but clothes will almost all be on hangers and can easily be lifted out in one go (probably much easier than having to strip a bunk for engine access)

Once the wardrobe is empty and the internal door open it is relatively easy to get into the void. This void is the space between the helm moulding and the saloon bulkhead and is a large enough space to stand up and turn around in (I am 6ft and 15st). The void gives good access to the rear of the main switch panel and all the radio, and nav gear that may be installed at the chart table, it also gives access to all the helm mounted instruments, plotter, steering etc. Practically all the wiring is terminated at DIN rail terminals that are marked to match the wiring diagram. AC nad DC terminals are separated to individual din rails. All in all I think the access and space are perfectly adequate and far better than the majority of boats.

One downside of the wiring installation is the routing of the main battery cables to the domestic isolator, windlass breaker and electric winch breaker - these are located behind a panel in the port hull passageway behind the chart table. Access to the terminal fixings on these items seems to be all but impossible without dismantling some of the furniture - not good for high current switches, loose terminals will cause major problems and I would like to be able to check the terminals for integrity on a regular basis. Another minor issue is that BB do not fit a strip light in this void - easily rectified though because all the terminals are there!!!

There is also plenty of spare space in the void for installation of additional equipment. We have fitted an inverter and transformer as well as a high current fuse box, these are on the bulkhead beneath the helm seat (all part of the same void). Wiring is all in bonded in conduit and adding more wires is pretty easy since BB leave draw cords in all conduits.

No doubt some boats will make the access easier to the switch panel, but then you may have difficulty accessing other systems on these boats. The BB solution may not be perfect for everyone but it is a pretty good compromise.

Ventilation on the BB42 is not very good in my experience. (I think it has been improved a bit since our boat was built). The fixed ventilation is poor with only one vent under the chart table. Cabin hatches open onto the side decks but are hinged at the front not the rear so air is not blown through the hatches at anchor. The two central saloon windows open outwards which is good but this does not help much in ventilating the hull accommodation. Condensation can be a problem, especially with all the single glazed Glass windows - efficient heating is a must in colder climes and improved ventilation almost essential in the tropics I would think.

Chris

[Intentional Drifter]

Chris --

I'm glad it works for you, and you are, after all, living with it whereas I was only imagining it. But, in my imagination I saw trying to contort myself around a corner, up through the void, where there is no natural light source, in 35 knots and 4 meter seas, with no power and trying to troubleshoot, too. What is the likelihood of such a scenario? Probably not much, but Dr. Murphy just loves to inhabit electricity and seems to make his presence know at the most inopportune times. At such times, how many steps must one go through before you can actually start seeing and tracing the wiring, and how much time does it take?

The thing about it, though, is that the fix to this is so obvious, and so easy: Put it all on a hinged panel. BB could actually just look at how Manta does it and copy. When I pointed this out to the very gracious BB representative, which I did also did quite courteously, her response was defensive rather than "maybe you have a point".

There are many things I really liked about the BB and I have no doubt that it is very capable and comfortable cruising cat. Enjoy!

ID

[Moby Dick]

Thanks for replies Randie, Talbot et al: but I was really meaning air-flow when closed up - ie when sailing or left at anchor/dock. How do you get air circulation in the extremities of the hulls, especially at the bows?

Without permanent ventilation surely you get smells and damp?

[Llamedos]

Hi ID
I accept your concerns about getting in there in nasty conditions - the same will apply to accessing all sorts of areas on all sorts of boats so not unique to BB.

I also accept that many people will want easy rapid access to the back of the switch panel - as you yourself do - nothing wrong with that.

I have not had a chance to see how Manta solve the problem but you obviously think it is a good solution, however I would guess that the main switch panel is hinged to allow access to the rear of the panel and all the connections etc that lurk there. I doubt if you are able to access all the other wiring termainations, battery cables, instruments, chart plotter, VHF, steering pump, compass etc all through this hinged panel - if you are able to do this then congratulations to Manta for an excellent design.

What I was trying to say about the BB is that the access method they use does allow you to get at an awful lot of stuff as well as the main switch panel and all in one place - this could be better for fault finding since alot more of the interconnections can be traced from one location.

No doubt you are well aware that most electrical problems are caused by poor connections / loose terminals / corrosion at connections - these are not confined to just the rear of the switch panel so the more potential problem areas you can access from one point the better. Also you could say that having a hinged panel could encourage loose connections because of the constant flexing of wires and terminals when opening and closing the panel .

My feeling is that modern switches and circuit breakers are very reliable - problems with electrics are more likely to be in other parts of the circuits - most probably in bilges and engine bays so our discussion about panel access is even less important

Cheers, Chris