Catamarans with direct drive

[LotNick]

We just bought a 2001 Leopard 45, direct drive with Yanmar 4JH3E and Kanzaki KM4A gear box. It's a dream come true for us - it has the AC, generator, water maker and lower helm but all were made with 4 cabins/4 heads. Plenty of room, nice swimming platform in the back, very large cockpit, great engine access. Love it!

[danielamartindm]

Leopard 33 also has shaft drives. To me, one of the biggest reasons to prefer direct drive over sail drive is engine access. My 4x4x4 engine "rooms" are torture to climb down into, and climb down into them and straddle the engine you must. Having the engines under the aft berths makes for easy maintenance and checks. Some say "Yeah, but you can't sleep in those berths underway for the noise," but how often is that really going to be a problem? Sail drives are popular among manufacturers because they're cheaper to produce; but they're more maintenance intensive, and the advent of dripless seals took the bite out of the "no stuffing box" argument for sail drives. They do deliver more thrust because of their direct stream aft, but hey, these aren't cigarette boats.

[danielamartindm]

Originally Posted by contrail

The older Leopard 45, 38, 42 and 43 all have straight shafts. They are known in the industry as being extremely rugged, more so than the later Leopards not to mention other later cats.

The reason there are so few straight drives is that it's harder to design around an engine sufficiently forward to use one. Usually, the cost comes in much higher bunks. The engineers will favour straight shafts, for good reason. The salespeople and many customers prefer lower bunks that are easier to climb into, so guess which group prevails. The designers listen to the sales folks, and it's easier to design for a saildrive and an engine at the very aft end of a boat.

All the Leopards have balsa cored hulls, as well as quite a few other cats, including lagoons. I have had people contradict this, but as I look at Irma wrecks, it's quite easy to see what is inside of what.

That said, balsa is a good core material, as long as you do't perforate it and then poorly seal it. It isn't hard to take care of it properly, and it's very strong. Balsa resists crushing. Look at a foam cored boat graze the corner of a dock, or otherwise take an impact, and you will see the result: a dent, because foam is easy to crush. I just watched one such dent be created a few days ago!. You won't see much of that on a balsa cored boat. Take care of it and you will be OK. In fact, among better built boats, which includes the Leopard line, I would bet you would find more boats that have had significant saildrive problems than balsa core problems. It's just that you know you will have maintenance problems on a sail drive, so you expect it, whereas you hope not to have balsa problems, so they seem worse. But there are plenty of unanticipated sail drive problems, too. Engine room water tight? Some more so and some less. There are lots of wires and piping that penetrate that water tight bulkhead. But, even if they are watertight, what's the cost and hassle of a flooded engine room, when you factor in the electricals, the engine, maybe a generator, etc, etc.

For me, personally, a sail drive would take a boat out of contention. For others, a balsa core would.

Cheers,
Tim

When I was shopping for a cat, I had reservations about balsa cores. It really didn't seem to be a problem if done correctly. I asked Phil Berman about it, and he said he had no problem with balsa as a core material.

[cardude]

Thanks for all the replies! I will concentrate on the Leopard models for now I think.

[rabbi]

Originally Posted by contrail

All the Leopards have balsa cored hulls, as well as quite a few other cats, including lagoons. I have had people contradict this, but as I look at Irma wrecks, it's quite easy to see what is inside of what.

Well it depends...
The latest Lagoon models are balsa cored everywhere, including below the waterline. The areas where sensors etc are installed are solid glass, at least on the 42 that I visited.

The latest spec sheet for the Lagoon 380 says balsa cored decks, balsa cored hulls above the waterline, solid glass below. But that was not always the case.

Having drilled a couple of holes in my boat I can say that my 2008 Lagoon 380 has balsa cored decks, foam cored hulls above the waterline, solid glass below the waterline, and a balsa / foam mix in the hardtop bimini.

Our previous FP Mahe 36 was foam cored decks, foam cored hulls above the waterline, solid glass below the waterline, and foam core in the hardtop section of the bimini. Even the main bulkhead is foam.
FP also moved from foam to balsa core in more recent designs.

[Stephen2258]

I am also in favor of a dirrect drive boat for a ffew reasons, as an example, a 2003 Leopard 43. #1 is the fact that the engines a located under the forward berths which maes them easy to access. My most desirable reason is I don't want to have to go out in a seriousstorm and climb down into a sugar scoop with the chance of getting pooped, or even just soaked and cold. I also think it's a safer place to be able to service a problem in a storm. Being warm, dry and not curled up into a ball in a sugar scoop is a big deal for me at 67 yrs. old and not terribly flexible or agile. Secondly, I'm not a fan of saildrives. The maintenance and corrosion issues are my main issues with a saildrive. NOW, having said all that, I agrfee with the riters that say there are many other issues that are more important than the position of the engines and whether or not it has tradaditional prop shafts.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by rabbi

Well it depends...
The latest Lagoon models are balsa cored everywhere, including below the waterline. The areas where sensors etc are installed are solid glass, at least on the 42 that I visited.

The latest spec sheet for the Lagoon 380 says balsa cored decks, balsa cored hulls above the waterline, solid glass below. But that was not always the case.

Having drilled a couple of holes in my boat I can say that my 2008 Lagoon 380 has balsa cored decks, foam cored hulls above the waterline, solid glass below the waterline, and a balsa / foam mix in the hardtop bimini.

Our previous FP Mahe 36 was foam cored decks, foam cored hulls above the waterline, solid glass below the waterline, and foam core in the hardtop section of the bimini. Even the main bulkhead is foam.
FP also moved from foam to balsa core in more recent designs.

Sorry for the off topic question, but what caused you to switch from the Mahe to the 380? They seem similar enough and the age would have to be about the same such that one would need to be pretty unhappy with the Mahe to make the effort and cost of the switch worthwhile? I feel like there's a good story in there somewhere?

[Palarran]

Direct drive kind of sounds like there isn't a transmission. Most people call it shaft drive.

A long time ago shaft drive was prefered but now I don't think it's that much of an issue. I like it but boats with sail drives do seem to be able to maneuver in tighter spots easier than I can. I love my bulkhead helm and simply wouldn't buy a full flybridge helmed catamaran. The best option I've seen are the sport tops where your 50% exposed. Mostly I want to be able to access my sail and boom easier than flybridges provide. The rest of your requirements are pretty standard. One thing that would be super important to me is bridgedeck clearance. In fact, it would be nearly the first thing I'd use to disqualify certain cats. I hate slamming, and it's simply a fact that all cats will have it, it just depends on the level of it.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by cardude

Currently have a monohull motorsailer, but want to transition to a catamaran for more room. I’m really stuck on direct drive instead of saildrives. The only boats I’ve been able to find with that setup so far are Leopards 47s.

Are the Leopards all balsa cored? Only ones I see for sale are older in the 2003 range. My current boat is a 2008, and while I realize the year model doesn’t mean all that much on a boat I don’t really want to go to an older designed boat.

My other desires are AC, generator, water maker, lower helm (although wife really wants a flybridge) and a owner’s setup with 3 cabins.
Want something that will sail well enough that if I get caught out in big seas I don’t have to worry about being scared surfing down waves.

Any suggestions?

You really need to check, one out carefully. Without a saildrive, the motor is placed in the cabin under the berth. On long passages the heat and noise are significant.

If the noise and heat are acceptable to,you, go for it.

[Palarran]

Originally Posted by Snore

You really need to check, one out carefully. Without a saildrive, the motor is placed in the cabin under the berth. On long passages the heat and noise are significant.

If the noise and heat are acceptable to,you, go for it.

Mine isn't. I'm sure it's a factor to consider but all boats are a list of pro's and con's. How much weight you put against certain factors varies by owner. Length, hull shape, dagger boards, bridgedeck clearance, and helm location would be at the top of mine.

[justakiss]

Privilege is also supposed to be coming out with a new catamaran that uses a shaft drive. It's also supposed to be "turn-key" ready with the cruiser as the target audience.

[Ostinato]

I personally would avoid sail drives if possible. I have a cat with them now and had to replace my original drives at 2000 hours. A ZF VP told me that a complete rebuild is what to expect at that age.

Hopefully Twin Disc sail drives are better than ZF but avoid if you can.