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Old 18-05-2014, 15:35   #16
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

Except that its not complete. Its not accurate.
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Old 18-05-2014, 15:40   #17
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

But it is more accurate and more complete than any others that have been put up.

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Old 18-05-2014, 16:03   #18
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

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Except that its not complete. Its not accurate.
Factor.. could you post a more complete, or more accurate list? maybe one that DOES include australian sales (which, I would be interested in seeing).
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Old 18-05-2014, 16:07   #19
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

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Except that its not complete. Its not accurate.
You as an industry insider might be able to shed some light on the subject.

When buying a used car we have Kelly Blue Book for determining the value, and it is accurate right down to regions.

For a boat, the banks use the NADA guide to determine the loan amount they are willing to carry and then we have what Cotemar has offered us.

In the case of a 1999 PDQ 36, Cotemar's sheet says one sold for $125K after being on the market for 11 months at a listed price of $127.5K.

NADA says for a 1999 PDQ 36, low book is $55K, high book $62.3K. It appears to me that if you want to purchase a used cruising sailboat, you just pay cash because if the bank will only carry 80% of low book combined with the selling price, then to finance you would need to have a down payment on this PDQ of $81K.

So, what gives here?
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Old 18-05-2014, 16:21   #20
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

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Factor.. could you post a more complete, or more accurate list? maybe one that DOES include australian sales (which, I would be interested in seeing).
All I can tell you is that it includes none of the boats I sold.
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Old 18-05-2014, 16:28   #21
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Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

The internet of everything changes everything, even buying and selling catamarans. Maybe brokering yachts needs to change the value delivery for potential clients if it's going to stay relevant.
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Old 18-05-2014, 16:31   #22
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

Does anybody in Australia actually record how many yachts are sold? If there is no central registry for these statistics then how would it be possible for anybody to quote figures? If it relies on Yacht brokers to give figures then it certainly would not be accurate. All salespeople "fudge' a little on figures like that.

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Old 18-05-2014, 16:32   #23
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

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SNIP

NADA says for a 1999 PDQ 36, low book is $55K, high book $62.3K. It appears to me that if you want to purchase a used cruising sailboat, you just pay cash because if the bank will only carry 80% of low book combined with the selling price, then to finance you would need to have a down payment on this PDQ of $81K.

So, what gives here?
When I was looking at Fboats I checked NADA prices which were much lower for C31s than any asking price I saw. I talked to some insurance agents about that as well as a bank recommended by Progressive. I had no intent of borrowing money to buy a boat but the loan officer I spoke to knew her fore from her aft and she said they would loan much more than the NADA value for a C31.

One problem with pricing boats is that very seldom are any two boats the same. A well maintained boat with lots of cruising gear and spare parts, even if it is a few years older, is worth much more than a newer bare boat; but try telling that to a loan officer who is afraid to dip their toe in the water.
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Old 18-05-2014, 16:40   #24
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

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All I can tell you is that it includes none of the boats I sold.
Your company goes not seem to list any of it's boats on Yachtworld. Yachtworld is the source of this data, so therefore any of your sales are not included. Australian brokerages that list on Yachtworld have had their sales recorded.

If your company's sales data was posted to supplement the Yachtworld data that Cotemar has so kindly posted then we would all have a more complete picture of Cat prices.
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Old 18-05-2014, 17:08   #25
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

The release of individuals private information, including for example what they realised on a sale is a sensitive and legislatively complex topic. Accordingly I don't release private information without the consent of owners, who, unsurprisingly, rarely wish the world to know their business.

And we do list on YACHTWORLD
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Old 18-05-2014, 17:23   #26
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

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The release of individuals private information, including for example what they realised on a sale is a sensitive and legislatively complex topic. Accordingly I don't release private information without the consent of owners, who, unsurprisingly, rarely wish the world to know their business.

And we do list on YACHTWORLD
I know you are in Oz, but here in the States homes and car's selling price is public record. Maybe that is why I'm having such a hard time determining the value of a cruising boat, the industry doesn't want me to know.

If I buy a used boat that just had a total refit, I would expect to use it for my time of ownership and when I sell, to accept the depreciation of both older age and remaining life of the last refit. That is hard to do when market values are unknown.
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Old 18-05-2014, 17:28   #27
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

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I know you are in Oz, but here in the States homes and car's selling price is public record. Maybe that is why I'm having such a hard time determining the value of a cruising boat, the industry doesn't want me to know.



If I buy a used boat that just had a total refit, I would expect to use it for my time of ownership and when I sell, to accept the depreciation of both older age and remaining life of the last refit. That is hard to do when market values are unknown.

Not sure if homes and cars selling prices are public record in the US. If you sell by owner and the buyer doesn't finance I don't think there is a public record.


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Old 18-05-2014, 17:40   #28
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

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Not sure if homes and cars selling prices are public record in the US. If you sell by owner and the buyer doesn't finance I don't think there is a public record.


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On cars you have to pay your state sales tax on the purchase price and with property you have pay your county's property tax.

That is why home shopping via Zillow can speed you past Realtor dealings because tax and transaction histories are just a click away. I sure wish we had a Zillow for cruising boats, would make life easier for both buyers and sellers.

It makes me think yacht brokers want an artificially inflated market, makes for larger commissions.
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Old 18-05-2014, 17:48   #29
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

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For a boat, the banks use the NADA guide to determine the loan amount they are willing to carry and then we have what Cotemar has offered us.
but, Deckofficer... NADA doesn't list CATS!... where do we go for prices on CATS?!? THAT would be where someone could make some big bucks!! put together a "bluebook" for CATS!!!
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Old 18-05-2014, 17:54   #30
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Re: Catamarans Sold in the 4th Quarter of 2013

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It makes me think yacht brokers want an artificially inflated market, makes for larger commissions.
But of course they do. Wouldn't you? Cannot blame anybody for that It's like the ads that you see for all products "get in now, selling fast" If they were selling fast they would not be spending/wasting money advertising.

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