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04-03-2017, 20:36
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#61
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Alaska
Boat: Boatless
Posts: 928
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzstar
Full value of contribution acknowledged. Now do you feel better?
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Yes :-) Thank you.
Was in response to post that no actual Cat folks were replying. In the future perhaps they should be the only ones who should. Just sayin.
__________________
www.sailingohana.com
"Take it all in, it's as big as it seems, count all your blessings, remember your dreams" JB
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04-03-2017, 22:12
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#62
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Marine Service Provider
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Boat: Multihulls - cats and Tris
Posts: 4,859
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Re: Preparing for heavy weather events.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Seaslug Caravan
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You could start by designing a boat with less rocker more reserve buoyancy in the bow, bridgedeck starting a lot further back, and that is all from just looking at the bottom.
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04-03-2017, 23:21
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#63
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 9,398
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
Quote:
Originally Posted by akprb
Yes :-) Thank you.
Was in response to post that no actual Cat folks were replying. In the future perhaps they should be the only ones who should. Just sayin.
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That would be nice, unlikely though given the first reply came from someone who refuses to state what multihull he has experienced.
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05-03-2017, 02:59
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#64
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Winter Germany, Summer Med
Boat: Lagoon 380 S2
Posts: 1,916
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
Just let the mono guys take care of this thread, just like any other generic multi thread.
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05-03-2017, 03:31
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#65
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
Boat sailing is boat sailing. Same seamanship needs to be demonstrated and a thorough knowledge of your vessel be it mono or Catamaran.
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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05-03-2017, 06:22
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#66
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Port Aransas, Texas
Boat: 2019 Seawind 1160 Lite
Posts: 2,126
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
I've never been in weather that bad in our 33 ft Seawind, and never crossed an ocean. We did a Gulf of Mexico race 150 nm distance in 2010. Wind started light but about halfway got to low 30's knots steady with higher gusts and large waves. Waves heights are always overestimated so I won't guess. Seemed huge. About a third of the fleet dropped out along the way. We were double reefed main, full jib, beating. Probably a dozen times we punched into waves that washed up over the windows of the hard top and dumped into the cockpit behind us. We had solid stretches of boat speed 13 knots, and tops was 15 knots. (Hull speed for this boat is more typically 7 knots, displacement conditions.)
Everyone onboard the boat was seasick, even the two of us that took meds. Four man crew. The two of us on meds were sick shorter time, the other two spent most of the race horizontal. I just had to suck it up, being my boat. That said, we were never in survival mode - we were trying to keep the boat moving fast and under control. We crossed the finish right in front of a Bahia 46. When we got to the dock, noticed the back of his boat was covered in barf! Seasickness was prevalent among all of the participants, even monohulls.
No cats pitch poled. We stuffed into waves hard numerous times, slowed, and then kept on trucking. If we were cruising, I would have jumped into port instead. But my lesson from it all is that the boat can handle conditions better than humans. And in high wind, even a short fat cat can get it's butt moving.
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05-03-2017, 06:24
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#67
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Port Aransas, Texas
Boat: 2019 Seawind 1160 Lite
Posts: 2,126
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
And we took first place in our fleet.
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05-03-2017, 08:16
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#68
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cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Pangaea
Posts: 10,856
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
Quote:
Originally Posted by sailjumanji
I've never been in weather that bad in our 33 ft Seawind, and never crossed an ocean. We did a Gulf of Mexico race 150 nm distance in 2010. Wind started light but about halfway got to low 30's knots steady with higher gusts and large waves. Waves heights are always overestimated so I won't guess. Seemed huge. About a third of the fleet dropped out along the way. We were double reefed main, full jib, beating. Probably a dozen times we punched into waves that washed up over the windows of the hard top and dumped into the cockpit behind us. We had solid stretches of boat speed 13 knots, and tops was 15 knots. (Hull speed for this boat is more typically 7 knots, displacement conditions.)
Everyone onboard the boat was seasick, even the two of us that took meds. Four man crew. The two of us on meds were sick shorter time, the other two spent most of the race horizontal. I just had to suck it up, being my boat. That said, we were never in survival mode - we were trying to keep the boat moving fast and under control. We crossed the finish right in front of a Bahia 46. When we got to the dock, noticed the back of his boat was covered in barf! Seasickness was prevalent among all of the participants, even monohulls.
No cats pitch poled. We stuffed into waves hard numerous times, slowed, and then kept on trucking. If we were cruising, I would have jumped into port instead. But my lesson from it all is that the boat can handle conditions better than humans. And in high wind, even a short fat cat can get it's butt moving.
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Finally, an honest post. Thanks.
None of the huge exagerations like folks bragging about sipping hot coffee without the cups tipping while joking around during 60 knot gales etc.
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05-03-2017, 08:29
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#69
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Poulsbo
Boat: Chris White Voyager 48
Posts: 665
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
You did get it that he was racing going to weather at double digit speeds in a 33 footer. Pretty damned good in my estimation.
Cheers,
__________________
Joe & Sue
S/V Presto
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05-03-2017, 08:46
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#70
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Morro Bay, CA
Boat: Pacific Seacraft Flicka
Posts: 11
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
Quote:
Originally Posted by onavegador
Llrfiori where is no ultimate receipe: it depends on your self and your crew, it depends on your catamaran.
Begin with the catamaran.
In my opinion a good compromise between sailing ability and comfort is best. As we know on catamarans you can choose for two of three qualitys: sailing abilities or comfort or price. I would choose sailing abilities and comfort and for the price I would choose a smaller cat. Sorry, I know that in this part of the world thingking is: bigger is better.
And now for heavy waether in the beginning of sailing with a catamaran the knowlegde that your boat can capsize is a burden for you. But more you have experience this burden will be lighter, And the behavior of the cat if you have enough (Sea) room you may sail downwind but not to fast, reef, reef in time may be you have at the end no mainsail up and only a tiny Tissue of the foresail. But it is important not to bee to fast and to have light bows so they cannot cut under.
See the accident in spring one or two years earlear of a Lagoon, sailing the Atlantic towards the Acores.
Otherwise I know of an accident in the Med in December some years ago when i a forecast storm a Catana capsized over the bows or sterns while trailing a drogue and an other Catana with experienced crew in the same Rallye was sailing fine.
May be you find it is better to sail to windward, again adequately reefed your cat will sail up huge mountains of waves in an angle of about 45 degrees (your GPS will tell you that you do a lot of leeway, but thats good as the eddies on the boats windside will flatten the sea a little.
And before you are totally exhausted and have still enough sea room ho have to heave too. When that happen you are happy when you know that your mast is not too high and you have choosen good sails (anyway a nececity for heavy weather sailing) at least three reefs for the main, I know people who like to have four reefs and you have not ordered that modern rectangular top. And when heaving too works fine you feel comfortable, I have read that at first in sailing books and would not belvieve, but thats the truth.
That is what I can tell you: no ultimate behavior many books have been written about heavy weather sailing.
Thats my opinion based on my experience other sailors have other opinions. The only thing I can say: after about 120k Miles I am still alive and I was so lucky to have not an (even little) accicent.
Courage and happy sailing.
James
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Thank you, James. This was very much the kind of information I was hoping for.
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05-03-2017, 08:53
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#71
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Morro Bay, CA
Boat: Pacific Seacraft Flicka
Posts: 11
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED
There's some great info in the above post. And would that I had time to pen something quite as insightful, & full of great tips. But... later perhaps. Until then below are links to some great self education resources on the subject(s). Including boat design, outfitting, handling/seamanship, et all. From some experts on these things who've been on the leading edge of yachting for decades.
Shuttleworth Design - Articles
SetSail FPB » Free Books
Victor Shane's Drag Device Data Base | Using Parachutes, Sea Anchors and Drogues to Cope with Heavy Weather – Over 130 Documented Case Histories
There are several chapters on relavent stuff in each of the (free) Dashew books. Shuttleworth goes into the science of what does & doesn't make a multihull perform when the chips are down. And the DDB lets you read lots, & lots of case stories on what worked & what didn't for folks; on all different boat types, as well as experience levels, & equipment.
BTW, 20-40yrs ago, the multihull designers of the time came to the general concensus that an offshore multihull should at a minimum be around 40' long, with 100,000ft/lb of righting moment. And the latter's pretty easy to calculate, though obviously it's not a hard & fast rule. But having a boat well sorted out in terms of handholds, easy sail handling, drogue deployment, etc. is. Even when some of these qualities take away from the weekend condo feel or look. Or not, the choice (& life) is yours.
Ask these guys https://www.plisson.com/media/catalo...8.03.144_1.JPG
Oh, & weatherly foils rock. As quite a lot of minikeels either stall a lot, or allow a lot of leeway when the wind & seas are up. Even it it's not a storm. So check a boat's real VMG vs. it's ideal VMG in flat waters.
PS: Also think on where your inside steering station might be. Even if but a seat with good visibility, & an autopilot remote. Boat's get designed around such features for a reason. Look at any craft that earns it's keep as a work boat!
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Thanks for the articles and info, Uncivilized! I want to learn all I can.
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05-03-2017, 09:29
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#72
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Seville London Eastbourne
Posts: 13,406
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
You might find this 'heavy weather' video typical of medium rough seas..
__________________
- Never test how deep the water is with both feet -
10% of conflicts are due to different opinions. 90% by the tone of voice.
Raise your words, not your voice. It is rain that grows flowers, not thunder.
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05-03-2017, 13:01
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#73
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Coast UK
Boat: Outremer 42
Posts: 164
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
The OP was asking how differently Cats behave in bad weather. Personal experience with a rudderless trimaran and the following year a rudderless, engineless catamaran both in 45+ knots of wind (why and how is a long pair of stories) is that they tend to turn broadside to the wind and simply stop. That is not a bad place to be, even though it's not what you'd choose.
The point is that in my experience, multihulls even if disabled, are inherently safe unless the height of the waves exceeds the beam of the boat and the waves are breaking. I think there is a formula from which that is derived but I'm not sure what it is. Ian Farrier will know.
If you have some control over speed and direction, then you become much safer and have more options so can handle even worse conditions than that. You are also usually level, which means boat handling is not a trial of gymnastics whereby you are in danger of being chucked off with each roll.
So survival storms excepted (I've thankfully never experienced one), I find multihulls very easy to live with in bad weather.
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05-03-2017, 13:09
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#74
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 5,983
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
Quote:
Originally Posted by out42
The OP was asking how differently Cats behave in bad weather. Personal experience with a rudderless trimaran and the following year a rudderless, engineless catamaran both in 45+ knots of wind (why and how is a long pair of stories) is that they tend to turn broadside to the wind and simply stop. That is not a bad place to be, even though it's not what you'd choose.
The point is that in my experience, multihulls even if disabled, are inherently safe unless the height of the waves exceeds the beam of the boat and the waves are breaking. I think there is a formula from which that is derived but I'm not sure what it is. Ian Farrier will know.
If you have some control over speed and direction, then you become much safer and have more options so can handle even worse conditions than that. You are also usually level, which means boat handling is not a trial of gymnastics whereby you are in danger of being chucked off with each roll.
So survival storms excepted (I've thankfully never experienced one), I find multihulls very easy to live with in bad weather.
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And mono hulls do exactly the same thing
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05-03-2017, 13:16
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#75
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: South Coast UK
Boat: Outremer 42
Posts: 164
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Re: Catamarans in Heavy Weather
Indeed they do, but God how they roll........ If there was a vomiting emoji, that's what would appear next....
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