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Old 10-08-2016, 22:38   #406
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Re: Wind Tunnel And CFD Investigation Of Unconventional Rigs

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Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
Not trying to dis the advantages of all these examples of what the cool kids are using because they offer advantages. In fact I would point out that while only marginally related to things like flipping and damage related to it lipo batteries are lighter, smaller, easier to maintain and less likely to hole the hull if they break free in a capsize and bash in the hull of a sailor.

Of course the down side of lipos and many of the other thing mentioned is cost. I am in the process of switching to soft shackles in some places on my boat in great part based on price. I would love to switch to dyneema in case of the running and standing rigging but can't justify the cost based on having existing working and running rigging. For a builder selling a new boat the advantage of a lower price may well be greater than superior function offered by dyneema rigging.

Bottom line for a lot of folks is that the new stuff, even if it is better, does not offer the best bang for the buck. And even if it does it may not be widely accepted as doing so to the boat buying public. One reason I have a Seawind 1000 with hull extensions is at my price point it offered the best bang for the buck. There are plenty of boats I view as "better" like some of the Chris Whites, Outremer, Gunboats, and several other. Sad to say all the boats I rate as better than the Seawind are several hundred thousands of dollars more than the Seawind.

Even if I found an Outremer close to the price point of a Seawind 1000 there is still the problem that I already have a Seawind I would have to sell to take advantage of the Outremer deal. The same problem exists for many of the smaller upgrades.

Kinda like "if it ain't broke don't fix it".
Hi Tom,

For the Gunboat its several $$MILLION more than the SW1000..

I use to love the Outremer as well but had the chance to tour the Outremer 45 side by side with the 1160 and 1250 at the recent Sydney boat show, was very surprised at the low quality of the Outremer and very little space for a 45 foot boat, the entire deck virtually had no non-skid, would not want to be going forward on the Outremer in any sort of wet conditions, same for interior, the 45 has less interior saloon than the 1160
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Old 11-08-2016, 02:06   #407
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Re: Catamarans in 50kt winds

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(remember the OP?)
the one that wants a boat as safe as this for the one storm that will catch her unprepared ?
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Old 11-08-2016, 02:42   #408
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Re: Catamarans in 50kt winds

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I can't remember the vessel we were on but I have done that trip; when I was racing at Assen. We didn't have any problems.

No problem but watch people doing the wobble-wobble walk along the long walkways that run the length of the ship.... its like some mutant form of line dance. One ended up in Venezuela but I think all scrapped now and not replaced.

I've only flown across the Bass Strait but I'd suggest your 4m limitation would be for a specific design of Cat as a Cat could be designed and built for that purpose, just as a mono could.

Standard issue Incat 'Seacats' built in Hobart which the designer/builder said were ideal for that run.... AMSA put the restriction on them .... the service folded because they missed so many sailings.... the death blow was when they cancelled all Christmas/New Year sailings at a day's notice in the early 2000s (if my memory serves ... I still had the day job), the mono ferries were still running :big grin: And when they did run they were known for vomitus maximus...
The RAN trialled one, HMAS Jervis Bay, running it between Darwin and Timor for two years. Seems the army preferred their men to arrive fit, well and rested ..... not calling for huey.....
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Old 11-08-2016, 15:08   #409
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Re: Catamarans in 50kt winds

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The RAN trialled one, HMAS Jervis Bay, running it between Darwin and Timor for two years. Seems the army preferred their men to arrive fit, well and rested ..... not calling for huey.....
That's what you get when you don't buy Kiwi.

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Old 11-08-2016, 16:11   #410
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Re: Catamarans in 50kt winds

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The RAN trialled one, HMAS Jervis Bay, running it between Darwin and Timor for two years. Seems the army preferred their men to arrive fit, well and rested ..... not calling for huey.....
Sounds like a boastful designer with a design problem!
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Old 11-08-2016, 16:39   #411
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Re: Catamarans in 50kt winds

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Sounds like a boastful designer with a design problem!
Very much so IMNSHO

Good in flat water like the Rio de la Plata... not so good in lumpy stuff.

Hard on the passos and did I mention the hull cracks?

That said they have been delivered on their own bottoms from Tas to Europe, S America etc.

He said they failed on Bass Strait cos the operators put them on the wrong routes eg Devonport /Welshpool , Devonport/Port Phillip.... dunno where they were meant to run to....
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Old 11-08-2016, 16:41   #412
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Re: Catamarans in 50kt winds

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That's what you get when you don't buy Kiwi.

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Pine Harbour to Auckland isn't quite trans Bass Strait.. just saying.....
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Old 11-08-2016, 16:51   #413
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Re: Catamarans in 50kt winds

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That's what you get when you don't buy Kiwi.

News :: Q-West

Q west have supplied nearly every new commercial boat in New Zealand, and several in Australia, for the last few years.
If its made in NZ it is automatically the best the world has ever seen...

Having had a long tour of Incat in Tasmania with one of the head structural engineers, I am absolutely blown away by the quality of the build and design, and incremental improvements the boats have undergone over the years of testing. These are amazing boats that really push the limits.
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Old 11-08-2016, 17:06   #414
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Re: Catamarans in 50kt winds

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Having had a long tour of Incat in Tasmania with one of the head structural engineers, I am absolutely blown away by the quality of the build and design, and incremental improvements the boats have undergone over the years of testing. These are amazing boats that really push the limits.
WoW! They have several structural engineers just for the heads?
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Old 11-08-2016, 17:47   #415
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Re: Wind Tunnel And CFD Investigation Of Unconventional Rigs

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Hi Tom,

For the Gunboat its several $$MILLION more than the SW1000..

I use to love the Outremer as well but had the chance to tour the Outremer 45 side by side with the 1160 and 1250 at the recent Sydney boat show, was very surprised at the low quality of the Outremer and very little space for a 45 foot boat, the entire deck virtually had no non-skid, would not want to be going forward on the Outremer in any sort of wet conditions, same for interior, the 45 has less interior saloon than the 1160
Yea, but a Gunboat is much more of a babe magnet.

A big part of the reason a Gunboat is such a babe magnet is because it costs $$Million more than a Seawind. If the truth be known I have never seen an Outremer in person. Same goes for the newer Seawinds. But both of those boats are at least double the price point of a used Seawind 1000.

My post you were responding to was very related to price point and how extras can add to that price point. One of my favorite rants is about how folks buy boats for what they think they want to do, not what they actually do. My Seawind 1000 with extended sugar scoops does a lot what I want a boat to do. I can single hand it; it is quite capable of sailing in the Florida Keys, Bahamas, and probably some points South with adequate planning.

I have no doubt the new, larger Seawinds have real advantages over the older Seawinds. The question for me is how much utility those advantages provide and more importantly do the advantages justify extra cost (twice or more what a used Seawind costs).

In terms of the OPs question about a cat in 50 knots I am sure the newer Seawinds would be a better boat in 50 knots than my older Seawind. I also have no doubt the larger ~50 foot Cantanas would probably be better than the somewhat smaller Seawinds. But like I posted earlier this is like discussing the biggest midget in the circus. My take is the idea is to avoid the 50 knot storms. By limiting my sailing to Florida and the Bahamas I am able to access accurate weather reports and either avoid bad storms or get the boat to a safe place before they hit. Like I said it is important to get a boat designed for what you are going to do, not what you think you are going to do.

My advice is if stay out of 50 knot storms the price point of your boat is less.
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Old 11-08-2016, 17:56   #416
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Re: Wind Tunnel And CFD Investigation Of Unconventional Rigs

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Yea, but a Gunboat is much more of a babe magnet.

A big part of the reason a Gunboat is such a babe magnet is because it costs $$Million more than a Seawind. If the truth be known I have never seen an Outremer in person. Same goes for the newer Seawinds. But both of those boats are at least double the price point of a used Seawind 1000.

My post you were responding to was very related to price point and how extras can add to that price point. One of my favorite rants is about how folks buy boats for what they think they want to do, not what they actually do. My Seawind 1000 with extended sugar scoops does a lot what I want a boat to do. I can single hand it; it is quite capable of sailing in the Florida Keys, Bahamas, and probably some points South with adequate planning.

I have no doubt the new, larger Seawinds have real advantages over the older Seawinds. The question for me is how much utility those advantages provide and more importantly do the advantages justify extra cost (twice or more what a used Seawind costs).

In terms of the OPs question about a cat in 50 knots I am sure the newer Seawinds would be a better boat in 50 knots than my older Seawind. I also have no doubt the larger ~50 foot Cantanas would probably be better than the somewhat smaller Seawinds. But like I posted earlier this is like discussing the biggest midget in the circus. My take is the idea is to avoid the 50 knot storms. By limiting my sailing to Florida and the Bahamas I am able to access accurate weather reports and either avoid bad storms or get the boat to a safe place before they hit. Like I said it is important to get a boat designed for what you are going to do, not what you think you are going to do.

My advice is if stay out of 50 knot storms the price point of your boat is less.

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Old 11-08-2016, 19:42   #417
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Re: Wind Tunnel And CFD Investigation Of Unconventional Rigs

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Seawind in a Cyclone


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Yea, but did you notice his wife (at the time) refused to get back on the boat after they reached safety.

Not really a babe magnet.
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Old 13-08-2016, 03:51   #418
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Re: Catamarans in 50kt winds

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Pine Harbjour to Auckland isn't quite trans Bass Strait.. just saying.....
I hope you noted the one that is the new Wellington all weather rescue boat.
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Old 13-09-2016, 08:01   #419
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Re: Catamarans in 50kt winds

Admiral 38' felt like a safe boat in a heavy weather.
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