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Old 07-02-2008, 14:02   #46
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It takes very little preperation to ensure there will be a dry area available in an inverted boat, especially a multihull. The underside of a normal in-hull bunk for instance. I'm not sure Autissier and Bullimore had this luxury - at least one of those boats still had it's ballast attached - and they were in the Southern ocean. I seriously doubt Bullimore would have survived if his boat had sunk and he'd been forced into a liferaft. His location meant it took some time for the Australian Navy to reach him.

Have a read of the story of the "Rose Noelle". I should re-read it too, it's been many years, and I've forgotten a lot.
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Old 07-02-2008, 14:05   #47
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most production builders don't do it, but I will paint the underside of my bridgedeck bright orange - it will also be non-skid. There will obviously be EPIRBS, handheld VHF, emergency water and food on board.
On the underside on my bridgedeck is painted a huge red circle inscribed with an X intended to be visible from the air. Along the inboard side of each hull and across the stern bottom edge of the bridgedeck are permamently installed jack lines. The hull jack lines can be reached from the escape hatches so that a tether can be attached before exiting. The escape hatches can be opened from outside if needed to gain entry. In a cockpit floor locker a strobe light is in a case permanently mounted upside down with its lens sticking out of the bottom such that it can be seen from under the boat - and can be turned on from under the boat. The life raft can be released from either the cockpit when upright or from the bottom of the bridgedeck if capsized.

These are all original factory installed items.

Dave
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Old 07-02-2008, 14:30   #48
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Don't you think there would be a big rush of air going out and a subsequent lowering of the hull further into the water when the emergency hatch is opened?.
David,

I understand your bewilderment on this subject. It simply doesn't sound rational, does it? Never the less the story mentioned earlier is a real world tale. The reserve buoyancy isn't trapped air in the hulls, it's foam injected into sealed compartments when the boat is constructed.

French Catamarans still have escape hatches on the underside of every boat made as it's the law there dating from early catamaran designs.

Even my older British cat has built in reserve buoyancy in case of disaster, which would keep the boat afloat when inverted. Although with 600 boats built dating from the late '70s, none have ever gone over, even in hurricanes. That's not to say it can't happen, just that it's extremely unlikely it would happen.

All in all Cat sailers stay with their boat no matter which side is up.
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Old 07-02-2008, 16:16   #49
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On the underside on my bridgedeck is painted a huge red circle inscribed with an X intended to be visible from the air. Along the inboard side of each hull and across the stern bottom edge of the bridgedeck are permamently installed jack lines. The hull jack lines can be reached from the escape hatches so that a tether can be attached before exiting. The escape hatches can be opened from outside if needed to gain entry. In a cockpit floor locker a strobe light is in a case permanently mounted upside down with its lens sticking out of the bottom such that it can be seen from under the boat - and can be turned on from under the boat. The life raft can be released from either the cockpit when upright or from the bottom of the bridgedeck if capsized.

These are all original factory installed items.

Dave
All sensible measures, and fairly simple to implement. More production boats should be like that.
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Old 07-02-2008, 17:39   #50
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David,

I understand your bewilderment on this subject. It simply doesn't sound rational, does it? Never the less the story mentioned earlier is a real world tale. The reserve buoyancy isn't trapped air in the hulls, it's foam injected into sealed compartments when the boat is constructed.

French Catamarans still have escape hatches on the underside of every boat made as it's the law there dating from early catamaran designs.

Even my older British cat has built in reserve buoyancy in case of disaster, which would keep the boat afloat when inverted. Although with 600 boats built dating from the late '70s, none have ever gone over, even in hurricanes. That's not to say it can't happen, just that it's extremely unlikely it would happen.

All in all Cat sailers stay with their boat no matter which side is up.
Hey, I am a newbee to sailing catamarans although not to monohull sailboats, bowerboats or ships. Thats why I ask all these frustrating questions. My goal here is to learn about something that I will be sailing in a few years...and perhaps in my limited knowledge, help others.

Thanks for all the replies, especially 44Cruisingcat, who has probably received a few gray hairs over my questions.
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Old 07-02-2008, 20:54   #51
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As usual we try to go the extra mile, our bridgdeck underside is Painted in a bright yellow green glow in the dark paint that will also be visible in the night, this glow in the dark is bright for over 12 hours, however bright paint may be ( and it is a good idea to use bright color) glow in the dark is visible 24 hours a day and speed of getting saved. This is a standard item besides having the inner safety webbing made from Dyneema under the bridgedeck , If anybody is interested , we have this paint produced and it works wonderfull.
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Old 07-02-2008, 23:33   #52
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Intererting thread. I have spent nearly 30 years sailing Catamarans, and have owned quite a number of different boats from a 46' Kurt Hughes designed custom to a 65' Brett Crowther designed Alloy boat. I have currently been cruising a french 56' MVPVLP designed lightweight cruising cat, and the one thing I have noticed during my journeys is the vast arrray of different "less seaworthy than mine" boats out there. I truly believe that with prudent seamanship most if not all of the current "pop out, cookie cutter" cats will get your family out there enjoying life at sea. Some of the cookie cutter boats are just downright good boats to be on. Cantana, some FP, Outremer, and some of the lighter africam boats come to mind. You can spend your life picking apart everyone elses choice in boats, or you can find the best available boat to meet your needs and get out there before you are too old to enjoy.......

Just my 2 cents worth.
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Old 07-02-2008, 23:40   #53
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Which FP do u refer to?
I have a Lavezzi but its yet to be tested at sea.
Its also yet to win me over.
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Old 08-02-2008, 06:13   #54
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Intererting thread. I have spent nearly 30 years sailing Catamarans, and have owned quite a number of different boats from a 46' Kurt Hughes designed custom to a 65' Brett Crowther designed Alloy boat. I have currently been cruising a french 56' MVPVLP designed lightweight cruising cat, and the one thing I have noticed during my journeys is the vast arrray of different "less seaworthy than mine" boats out there. I truly believe that with prudent seamanship most if not all of the current "pop out, cookie cutter" cats will get your family out there enjoying life at sea. Some of the cookie cutter boats are just downright good boats to be on. Cantana, some FP, Outremer, and some of the lighter africam boats come to mind. You can spend your life picking apart everyone elses choice in boats, or you can find the best available boat to meet your needs and get out there before you are too old to enjoy.......

Just my 2 cents worth.
Well stated, Thankyou
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Old 08-02-2008, 07:12   #55
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For the ones who think an upturned cat or Tri is an unsuitable liferaft think again.

I'd rather be harnessed to these than in a Deathrafft being blown around, upside down and inside out.

Maybe you should read how succesful Deathrafts were in the Sydney to Hobart storm.

they Blew away faster than crew could swim, bottoms broke free leaving crew in the water, they capsized and the floor was the roof/roof was the floor.

Which do you think would be easier spotted by rescue crew?

Dave
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Old 08-02-2008, 14:44   #56
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Hello all,

Actually, this whole conversation is fundamental.

Any skipper venturing on the water without this --> EPIRBS,
and then sustaining an unrecoverable knockdown, whether in a mono or multi without setting off this --> EPIRBS,
in the hopes that he will live comfortably on or inside of his turtled vessel for days, weeks, months or years at a time while he contemplates this --> EPIRBS,
needs to have this --> noggin
checked for missing grey matter.

IMHO and I'm sure that the more hardened Neptunes will disagree.

Me, I would want a speedy rescue so I can cry while filing my insurance claim with the hope that I will be back in the water quickly smiling once again. With that said, I would definitely come alongside and ask capsized souls if they would like to stay on the raft for a couple of extra weeks or if they desire rescue.

J
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Old 08-02-2008, 16:47   #57
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jcf, I am sure anyone who is considering a liferaft will also have an epirb. The problem is that there are many areas on the globe where there is no clear convention as to which government should expend a fortune in order to effect a quick rescue by helicoptor. Further, there are many areas outside of the range of helicoptors. Simply put, your rescue may not come as quickly as you anticipate and you had better be prepared to survive the conditions that capsized your vessel in the first place.

Brad
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Old 08-02-2008, 20:22   #58
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Hello all,

Actually, this whole conversation is fundamental.

Any skipper venturing on the water without this --> EPIRBS,
and then sustaining an unrecoverable knockdown, whether in a mono or multi without setting off this --> EPIRBS,
in the hopes that he will live comfortably on or inside of his turtled vessel for days, weeks, months or years at a time while he contemplates this --> EPIRBS,
needs to have this --> noggin
checked for missing grey matter.

IMHO and I'm sure that the more hardened Neptunes will disagree.

Me, I would want a speedy rescue so I can cry while filing my insurance claim with the hope that I will be back in the water quickly smiling once again. With that said, I would definitely come alongside and ask capsized souls if they would like to stay on the raft for a couple of extra weeks or if they desire rescue.

J
Cetainly the advent of EPIRBS will almost always lead to much quicker rescues than previously. BUT you still might need to survive for some time until you can be rescued. And possibly in extreme conditions. In fact conditions migh tbe so extreme as to make rescue difficult, dangerous or even impossible. Having a 40 foot or so, rigid raft, with large supplies of food, water and clothing, is going to be preferable to a 10 foot inflatable kiddies pool with a roof.

No doubt Bullimore and Autissier had EPIRBS and liferafts, but they sensibly chose to stay with their upturned boats as long as they remained afloat.
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Old 08-02-2008, 20:26   #59
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Hey, I am a newbee to sailing catamarans although not to monohull sailboats, bowerboats or ships. Thats why I ask all these frustrating questions. My goal here is to learn about something that I will be sailing in a few years...and perhaps in my limited knowledge, help others.

Thanks for all the replies, especially 44Cruisingcat, who has probably received a few gray hairs over my questions.
No worries David, we're all here to learn what we can, hopefully. Since you will be looking for a boat for yourself, it's always worth bearing in mind what could be done in regards to making the boat more habitable upside-down, even if only for a very short period.
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Old 08-02-2008, 21:58   #60
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That is certainly worth considering. The best one can do when learning is to keep their mind open to all possibilities.
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