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Old 31-08-2010, 06:07   #1
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Catamarans - Current Market Situation

With less than 4 months till my intended purchase of a cat from overseas I'm still trying to figure out the market prices.

Yes, they say find an honest broker; don't insult vendors with ridiculously low offers and research prices on soldboat.com.

OK I won't go into the honest broker debate, but soldboat.com's credibility has been questioned on other forums with allegations and testimonies that brokers submit higher prices than actual prices on some boats to maintain market values.

I'm also having a problem getting onto soldboat now so I guess those logons that are on bugmenot.com have been cancelled.

With talk of a second recession now being a case when and how bad I'm just wondering what boats are really selling for and how much to offer?

Prices in the Med seem to be dropping but the Caribbean seems stable at the moment, anyone with some first hand information would be appreciated?
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Old 31-08-2010, 14:52   #2
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market

As a qualifier, i sell cats for a living. multiple brands and act as independent agent for buyers. what i am seeing right now is that the pricing on new boats from France have decreased to pre-2008 levels, but owners of late model ones are not yet adjusting to this fact. Buyers are making lower offers but not having as much luck as i would anticitpate. I think this will change after the fall boat show season once the owners actually see the new pricing in effect. If not, some buyers will opt for new boats instead.

Larger cats are doing better at holding value.

Back on your other post about blisters or gelcoat issues, i have a Bahia 46 2005 and was just hauled and new bottom paint. Absolutely no blemishes what so ever.

As to engines under bunks, no debate in my mind. go on some boats with this arrangement paying attention to smells, and then go on ones with engines aft in swimplatform. Besides the noise levels and smells, and hauling parts and oil through your cabin, there is the safety issue. if you blow a hose under bunk, you can fill a cabin, blow one in aft engine room and all you fill is swimplatform and this is loaded with foam on most boats that can float this area. Plus no damage to personal items is a big plus.

another safety feature is fire, with aft engine room, you can fight the fire through fire holes both in the ceiling of engine room and back wall of cabin without opening the engine compartment.

My bahia has enough room of both sides of engines to sit and work. I just removed my SD 50 saildrives and removed my heat exchangers for cleaning with out incident. the engines are beneath a separate room where i have air con and batteries on one side and genset plus tools and suppilies on the other. THere is enough room next to engines, that i have my water maker motor and pump mounted there.

hope this helps
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Old 31-08-2010, 21:27   #3
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Thanks Charter Magic,

You make a lot of good points and I suppose the reality is that the market is in a state of flux and it will take some time before we can see where it really is at.
As I'm looking at sub 200K boats any good deals seem to be snapped up quickly.
What I don't get is why a boat that is worth say 150K is advertised for over a year at 200K then suddenly sells for 140K.
How does that work?
If a broker knows a vendor will accept a certain price why not advertise just above that price and get a quick sale and keep everyone happy.
When is the fall boat show?
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Old 31-08-2010, 21:38   #4
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I feel your pain Dragon Lady. I know of this broker that has a very small marina with about 8 or so yachts and refuses to sell any of them until the market pics up?!?! (he owns the yachts himself) Yeah, that makes a lot of business sense, instead of selling the yachts and get something, that isn't that far off the asking price, he'll wait until, possibly, the market will pick up and he can sell it at a huge profit?!?! All the while, his dead assets are eating up his capital and lord knows what else...

I guess all you can do is just negotiate when you do find the one that really meets your every wants and needs.. good luck, regardless!!!
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Old 31-08-2010, 23:31   #5
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Thanks Shadow,

I too have a broker/friend who is trying sell me his boat at a price that I consider a bit high. But it is his boat and like all owners he has the right to ask what ever he likes.
The problem I have is with brokers who won't let the owners sell the boat at a price below the brokers expectations.
That said I know there are a lot of brokers whom can not get the owners to come down and meet the market prices.
It's all a vicious circle, still as a buyer I can sit back and wait for the right boat at the right price.
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Old 01-09-2010, 00:06   #6
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I to was ready to put in offers , then our dollar dropped of and hasnt risen again.
What can we expect to happen . It goes up and down like a yo yo .
At first I felt I was offering reasonable money , using AU as my currancy , then when I checked the exchange it had dropped by nearly 5k.
Its hard to know what to do .
Maybe just build your own . I mean, my own work has drooped off and have plenty of time on my hands . Just cant find the design that stands out though, and dont really know if I want to take this on.
Good luck. Its looking interesting.
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:30   #7
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I do believe that the economy in general will keep declining as the year progresses. So, I would perhaps wait a bit and just keep watching their add.. Most brokers don't understand that the market is US, the buyer... If the seller wants 100K for their yacht but 10 out of 10 buyers only want to pay 60K, guess what, that is what the MARKET is dictating!! I do understand that sellers are more emotionally attached to their yachts and their hearts usually over rides common economical sense..

Unfortunately, this problem compounds when a broker is involved as they want the most bang (commission) for the purchasing buck...
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Old 01-09-2010, 02:08   #8
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Moorings prices?

I don't know how close they are to market but the Moorings Brokerage sells yachts, including catamarans. They sell a lot and their prices seem to be consistent.

If you're looking to buy a late model cat a call to them may reveal what ex charter boats are going for. Some may stay on the market for a while but most look to be moved on a regular basis.

Adjust up or down depending on your requirements and own assessment.

Good late model cats are not going to be cheap...
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Old 01-09-2010, 06:52   #9
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Good info Charter Majic. Why did you replace your sd50 s ? I know of their problems but thought there is a quick fix for the cone clutch issue.
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Old 01-09-2010, 23:49   #10
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Originally Posted by Boracay View Post
Good late model cats are not going to be cheap...
I beg to differ there mate, I know of a 900K boat that went for half it's original value due a foreclosure sale.

I know this doesn't happen all the time but it is happening

If you think cat prices are bullet proof you are kidding yourself.

Even in a sheltered market like OZ with stimulus money and high iron ore prices feeding our economy.
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Old 02-09-2010, 06:27   #11
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As long as Banks continue to require more of a prospective owners' "skin" in the game, all boat sales will continue to be affected.

The pool of folks who can write a check for the entire purchase price of a late model cruising catamaran is simply not large enough to prop up market pricing. Prices will continue to fall until the job market returns to some degree of normalcy. And that is an entirely different subject.
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Old 02-09-2010, 07:37   #12
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Originally Posted by Tropic Cat View Post
As long as Banks continue to require more of a prospective owners' "skin" in the game, all boat sales will continue to be affected.

The pool of folks who can write a check for the entire purchase price of a late model cruising catamaran is simply not large enough to prop up market pricing. Prices will continue to fall until the job market returns to some degree of normalcy. And that is an entirely different subject.

That is a really good analysis. As you say, there's not a lot of people who can actually write a half million dollar check. I have recent direct experience with purchasing a never chartered cat and in my opinion it was a steal. Having just said that, I'm not sure I couldn't duplicate the purchase again. If you actually have the money and are able to close quickly, there are bargains out there.
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Old 02-09-2010, 07:54   #13
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That is a really good analysis. As you say, there's not a lot of people who can actually write a half million dollar check.
I can very easily write that check........................, I just need to get the boat out of the country before they try to cash it!
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Old 02-09-2010, 08:07   #14
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Typical Texan - I'm just glad to hear a couple of you can actually write
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Old 02-09-2010, 17:21   #15
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so, in line with what is said above, I am wondering how to go about putting in offers on the boats I am looking at. I can write the check, but how do i throw out a lowball offer and not offend sombody and also, at the same time, let them know i am dead serious and have the resources to back up my offer for a clean transaction? Do I put an offer on every boat in my short list, then follow with survey?

Brian
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