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Old 14-10-2010, 21:24   #106
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I have heard that the market has started to pick up a bit and there seems to be a few boats being reported sold on Yachtworld.
Maybe the low USD is tempting buyers in from offshore?
Has the US/ Carribean market botomed now?
I think Europe is still easing.
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Old 15-10-2010, 06:22   #107
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Sales in the current market

the market is definitely picking up. The boat show">Annapolis boat show saw very strong sales in all areas. We sold a new Prout 50 at the show, and others to come. French builders of cats will be raising prices by 12 % to offset the weak dollar. That was not well recieved by the buyers.

BVI has seen strong sales in the last 8 weeks, with used boats of all value and type. Mix of buyers from all over. More good listings are coming onboard as well.
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Old 15-10-2010, 09:56   #108
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Look in the rear view mirror; that's the bottom of the market disappearing into history. Buy now or forever kick yourself.

I would never believe a yacht broker or dealer's claim of Show sales, but I trust these tidbits: Aftermarket providers of new boat add ons like davits, bimini's, and so on report firm orders to equip 38 low end new boats (Catalinas, Hunters, Beneteaus, etc.) in the $130K to $320K range.

I trust used boat sales reports even less, but there are several Brokers paying overdue bills, and a crush of boatie craftsmen loading up on new equipment install supplies. My neighborhood here in Annapolis has recieved a long overdue transfusion. Some of the kids playing outside have shoes.
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Old 15-10-2010, 11:04   #109
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Once you hood gets healthy could you send the nurse to Detroit because we're still feeling pretty ill.

Scratch that, it's going to take a full medical team

As far as the market, everytime I talk to my old broker in St. Martin he says things are going well, so I guess they are. The situation with cats though, IMO, is that there are ALOT of charter boats coming out of service and it will keep prices stable for quite some time, for those level of boats. Those of you who have cruised for years must see a huge difference in vessel mix. When I'm sailing around the St. Maarten/Martin area, there are 50% cats. It couldn't have been like that 10 years ago.
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Old 15-10-2010, 11:47   #110
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Who's to say where the US dollar is going in this currency war, but the Euro holders, and Aussies are the stronger buyers in the US$ market now.
Not sure if this has been discussed or is common knowledge, but a broker informed me that they often give two bills of sale: one for the vessel, and one for the "stuff". Perhaps this is a way to lighten the GST burden.
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Old 15-10-2010, 11:53   #111
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"French builders of cats will be raising prices by 12 % to offset the weak dollar. That was not well recieved by the buyers."

You guys are getting a taste of what it's been like for Aussie buyers for the last 20 years.

Guess I'd better get a move on before my fellow Aussies snap up all the good deals.
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Old 15-10-2010, 15:10   #112
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Have you ever considered your boat as an "Exit Strategy". I bought a house and a Lagoon 380 cat at the end of 2005. The house is worth half of what I paid, and falling ( 4.8 million homes over 90 days in arrears or in foreclosure, 1.1 million homes already owned by US Banks) and the boat has held it's value. Who would have ever guessed that in 2006? 41% of Americans get a Government check, the Government borrows $140 billion a month to pay bills, 80% of which, is money created by the Fed. How long will Mother Economics (Mother Nature's ugly step sister) allow this BS to continue, before she rears her ugly head sends a financial tsunami/earthquake/volcano at the western world??? Keep your boat! You will need it.
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Old 15-10-2010, 15:14   #113
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Have you ever considered your boat as an "Exit Strategy". I bought a house and a Lagoon 380 cat at the end of 2005. The house is worth half of what I paid, and falling ( 4.8 million homes over 90 days in arrears or in foreclosure, 1.1 million homes already owned by US Banks) and the boat has held it's value. Who would have ever guessed that in 2006? 41% of Americans get a Government check, the Government borrows $140 billion a month to pay bills, 80% of which, is money created by the Fed. How long will Mother Economics (Mother Nature's ugly step sister) allow this BS to continue, before she rears her ugly head sends a financial tsunami/earthquake/volcano at the western world??? Keep your boat! You will need it.
agree,
interesting times.
Real Estate is getting cheaper and cheaper around here.
But I will buy a boat...
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Old 15-10-2010, 16:13   #114
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The Situation in the USA is mind blowing for me, is it the case all over? I thought places like New York City and Seattle have enjoyed record growth.
House prices in Australian capital cities are tipped to rise 20%.
Boat prices on the other hand must surely drop here with cheaper imports coming in.
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Old 16-10-2010, 00:40   #115
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Have you ever considered your boat as an " How long will Mother Economics (Mother Nature's ugly step sister) allow this BS to continue, before she rears her ugly head sends a financial tsunami/earthquake/volcano at the western world??? Keep your boat! You will need it.
Words of wisdom Timbenner! Don't forget that boats are also the best defence against rising sea levels associated with Global Climate Change, just remember to let out a bit more chain! They also provide an escape mechanism from undesirable family members such as the mother in law.

If the affordability issue is major obstacle please don't be tempted to recover the purchase price by carrying certain cargoes:





Catamaran might hold more cocaine after record seizure at Scarborough | Courier Mail

Seriously, there is a great opportunity that some of our US friends have already started to exploit. With the high Australian dollar and an inflated secondhand cruising cat market here, why not buy a discounted boat in the US or Caribbean, cruise across the Pacific, sell at a premium in Australia and convert back to greenbacks at an historically high rate?
Just don't carry nose candy!

PS Wait for the mono lovers who regularly invade this forum to start riduculing these drug runners: "Real drug runners use monohulls, they can carry much more. 464kg of cocaine is all a cat can carry, etc, etc." LOL
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Old 16-10-2010, 23:39   #116
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How do i get a accurate value on my boat in Aust.
I have had 3 estimates that vary greatly from one extreme to the next! So heres the boat,
A lagoon 440 never chartered and about 1000 hrs on the yanmars.
2005 model in very good condition with most options.
Fully imported into Australia ready to go but could use a new mainsail?
Whats it worth?
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Old 17-10-2010, 10:29   #117
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concerning the Cat' Market: I'm a newbie here, getting the catamaran 'bug' and would like to retire on a cat' someday.... where's the sweet-spot in pricing currently on age, length, features, vs. price?
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Old 17-10-2010, 13:07   #118
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My favorites for a moderate budget are the Gemini ($160,000+ new) and the Lagoon 380 ($300,000+ new). There are hundreds of both boats in the water, so they are a proven design and easily found used at different levels of fit and finish. Used, you can find either for 60 to 90% of new, depending on whether it's a charter or owner boat. If you're a future live a board, buy a used owner boat, not charter boat, or go new and spend $100,000+ adding all of the live aboard stuff, + the work to get it all installed. If you're handy, you can try the installs, but if you're not handy, the labor to install is going to be a large percentage of the cost of the item. Rough numbers: $10,000 water maker, $2,500 to install, $3,500 SSB radio, $1,500 to install. You can't beat buying a used Owner boat that has lots of extras you're going to get for next to nothing and low hours.

I bought a used 2002 Lagoon 380 Owner's Version (3 cabin), in 2005, with 400 hours, not a scratch in it, 3 a/c units, generator, RIB, etc. for $275,000. It's still worth close, but a little south of that. Indigo Moon, 2001 decked out Lagoon 380 Owner's Version sold recently for approx that same price. Don't compare prices on a beat up used 4 cabin charter boat, with Owner's Version, low hours and a lot of live a board extras. If you buy the stripped and very used charter boat cheap, and add all of the stuff an owner would, you LOOSE financially. Not to speak of the headaches related to the install (don't underestimate install $ & headache).

I'm handy, but not a marine expert, so I did a combination of both. Hired a professional installer to consult me on how to do the easy and/or labor intensive part of the install and then brought in the expert to finish it. A good professional installers advise is worth paying for, but I can take the boat apart to run wire, hoses, etc. Being involved with the installs is very important if you're going to live on the boat. No one cares more than you and you'll learn a lot.

I'm not a big fan of one off boats or very low production boats, because I don't have the expertise to assess their seaworthiness and/or manufacturing quality. A company like Lagoon, owned by Benneteau (one of the worlds largest boat manufacturers) spend more money on engineering and research than the small companies make in a year. Lagoon is a mass producer of "A" rated, Blue Water boats, so for a non-expert of boat manufacturing, like me, I take comfort knowing I've got a Toyota or Ford of off shore boats.
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Old 17-10-2010, 20:05   #119
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Quite impressive thread drift, back at the market place I think all boats drop off in value from new for about 8 to 10 years then the major repairs start appearing and if a boat is well maintained and doesn't need major work it will hold it's value or if the price of new boats go up it will probably go up in value too.
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Old 18-10-2010, 02:01   #120
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My favorites for a moderate budget are the Gemini ($160,000+ new) and the Lagoon 380 ($300,000+ new). There are hundreds of both boats in the water, so they are a proven design and easily found used at different levels of fit and finish. Used, you can find either for 60 to 90% of new, depending on whether it's a charter or owner boat. If you're a future live a board, buy a used owner boat, not charter boat, or go new and spend $100,000+ adding all of the live aboard stuff, + the work to get it all installed. If you're handy, you can try the installs, but if you're not handy, the labor to install is going to be a large percentage of the cost of the item. Rough numbers: $10,000 water maker, $2,500 to install, $3,500 SSB radio, $1,500 to install. You can't beat buying a used Owner boat that has lots of extras you're going to get for next to nothing and low hours.

I bought a used 2002 Lagoon 380 Owner's Version (3 cabin), in 2005, with 400 hours, not a scratch in it, 3 a/c units, generator, RIB, etc. for $275,000. It's still worth close, but a little south of that. Indigo Moon, 2001 decked out Lagoon 380 Owner's Version sold recently for approx that same price. Don't compare prices on a beat up used 4 cabin charter boat, with Owner's Version, low hours and a lot of live a board extras. If you buy the stripped and very used charter boat cheap, and add all of the stuff an owner would, you LOOSE financially. Not to speak of the headaches related to the install (don't underestimate install $ & headache).

I'm handy, but not a marine expert, so I did a combination of both. Hired a professional installer to consult me on how to do the easy and/or labor intensive part of the install and then brought in the expert to finish it. A good professional installers advise is worth paying for, but I can take the boat apart to run wire, hoses, etc. Being involved with the installs is very important if you're going to live on the boat. No one cares more than you and you'll learn a lot.

I'm not a big fan of one off boats or very low production boats, because I don't have the expertise to assess their seaworthiness and/or manufacturing quality. A company like Lagoon, owned by Benneteau (one of the worlds largest boat manufacturers) spend more money on engineering and research than the small companies make in a year. Lagoon is a mass producer of "A" rated, Blue Water boats, so for a non-expert of boat manufacturing, like me, I take comfort knowing I've got a Toyota or Ford of off shore boats.
Having bought new a Lagoon 380, kitted it out thoroughly, used it lightly, and then sold it after couple of years, I couldn't help identifying with this post. The money spent on extras is always more than you imagine it will be, and the the workload of organising it is even more surprising.

We sold our boat in perfect condition and with lots of extra kit, but it was often compared 'price-wise' by buyers, with the bare well-used examples. If value for maney is a key driver then a one-owner, loved and polished, well-equipped boat, is often great value for money compared to a well-worn charter alternative, if you intend to live aboard.

But you still have to find that boat, and be persistent, because adverts, brokers, and disinformation from sellers will lead you astray.

I think that getting the best quality product for an average market price has significant advantages over bargain basement items at a cheap price. Less risk?

But if you are time-short and don't have the persistence, then a new boat is probably the less risky option. You just have to work on timing your purchase when the currency is most in your favour.

As for the general market, it looks like we may be heading for a grim winter in the UK. The spring optimism had evaporated and there are several yachts for sale. However, as sterling has recently dropped against the Euro we may benefit from the influx of Euro buyers who kept our brokerages alive last year.

So, current market? Weak (in the UK). But there may be a lot to gain from taking advantage of currency shifts if you are quick-footed.

Cheers

Garold
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