Catamarans - Current Market Situation

[mtnsapo]

nice try......

[Tropic Cat]

Originally Posted by mtnsapo

nice try......

??

what's in it for him?

[Dragon Lady]

Hmmm,not sure what's going on there obviously the moderator took exception to his post.
For the record my number 1 question now that I know what boat I want is how much do I have to pay to "meet the market price"?

[mtnsapo]

sorry, jsut looked like he was tryign to pimp is book, low had a low post count and just signed up... it looked like spam to me. for the record I didn't talk to any mods or anything...

I just looked up his ohter posts, doesn't appear to be spam, he just came off to me that way..

Brian

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by Dragon Lady

For the record my number 1 question now that I know what boat I want is how much do I have to pay to "meet the market price"?

What boat is that? I must have missed that post.

As mentioned on other posts, I think that the grossly inflated Aussie cat market is starting to be influenced by overseas reality. There are more foreign registered boats on our local "for sale" lists, as you would know.
If you inquire about them the brokers try to steer you towards local boats and overstress the difficulties of getting a boat delivered to Australia. I haven't found any that are set up to sell foreign boats and seamlessly organise their import. Some may exist.

Have you offered any local sellers the price that you expect to pay in total for a landed foreign boat, inspected, purchased, delivered and duties paid?

More and more Aussie buyers are looking overseas and putting this option as a "business case" to a local seller with a "dreaming" price tag might save you (and him) a heap of effort and drama.

[Dragon Lady]

Thanks Tuskie,

Yes I have, there is a broker currently working on this but I'm not very hopeful, Australia has been very lucky and has avoided a lot of the pain many others have felt these last few years.
Years of a poor exchange rate, long delivery distances and high local labor rates have created the market here.
Now that the dollar is up, local boat yards are closing down so the market is dropping a bit, but most owners just won't wear the loss because they don't have too.
Some owners were trying to liquidate their boats to get into other markets like real estate but I think that has gone off the boil too.
I think a lot of owners will hang on their seems to be a few cat owners trying to upsize their boats but they want to sell their current boat for top dollar and then expect to buy a bargain.
Makes me laugh at them, sorry most Aussies just don't know the reality of what's going on in the world.

[tuskie]

Yes, it's frustrating all right! There are many cats on the market here that aren't really for sale. Just as coastal real estate is often advertised at way above market price during holiday time, just in case someone "falls in love" and pays a premium price, there are a few cat owners also "fishing for fools".
Some genuine sellers see these asking prices and follow suit.

I spoke to a local man who bought an ex-charter Lagoon 420 hybrid in the BVI and sailed her to Brisbane recently with a crew of a couple of mates. He plans to sail her out of Australian waters again for a few months and do some cruising under the BVI flag before eventually returning and paying duties. He is hoping that the boat's assessed value and "import cost" will be considerably reduced by then.

Have you narrowed your boat choice to particular models?

[Dragon Lady]

I didn't think you could sail a boat under the flag of a different country isn't there pretty stiff penalties for doing so?
As for us we are sold on the FP design, in a charter layout under 40 feet built after 1997, preferably with Yanmars.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Dragon Lady

.
Now that the dollar is up, local boat yards are closing down

Which ones? I know of no multihull builder that is closing down.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by tuskie

I spoke to a local man who bought an ex-charter Lagoon 420 hybrid in the BVI and sailed her to Brisbane recently with a crew of a couple of mates. He plans to sail her out of Australian waters again for a few months and do some cruising under the BVI flag before eventually returning and paying duties. He is hoping that the boat's assessed value and "import cost" will be considerably reduced by then.

I would strongly suggest that your friend talks with a competent customs agent. The import cost will be increased - not decreased in all liklihood. But please dont take my word for it. Seek independant competent professional advice and see what they say.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by Dragon Lady

I didn't think you could sail a boat under the flag of a different country isn't there pretty stiff penalties for doing so?

If you buy a boat OS, change rego to your name in the country of purchase(apparently this is OK in BVI) and sail it back home. When you are sailing home you are doing so under another country's flag. Most foreign going ships are registered in cheap "ports of convenience". These bear no relationship to the owner's or crew's nationality.You may stay in Australia for a couple of months ( 3 I think) before either registering as an australian ship (and paying all duties) or leaving.

[tuskie]

Originally Posted by Factor

I would strongly suggest that your friend talks with a competent customs agent. The import cost will be increased - not decreased in all liklihood. But please dont take my word for it. Seek independant competent professional advice and see what they say.

He is not my friend, just another yachty sharing his experience. He apparently has seeked advice, and believes that an older, more depreciated vessel delivered from a closer international port will attract less duty. He may be wrong.
Then again, he may decide to stay cruising in SE Asia and the Pacific, renew the BVI registration and give Australia a wide berth and our customs nazis too.

[Factor]

The other thing that affects these sort of process is currency movements, at the moment its good for using $A overseas, if you are doing a long deal its worth considering hedging against the currency movement just in case the arse drops out of the dollar.

[JustThinking]

ISO of my new "Girlfriend" I more and more am drifting towards a Cat.
Hence this topic is of great interest to me especially since I have to realize two factors:
(a) My current budget (and the one I know I will come by in the near future) are as prohibitive for vessels (Catamarans) of 50' + and
(b) With a cat there is so much more room on board, that a 40-45' will probably give me more living space than my last 60' monohull.

Speaking of brokers:
I find it rather strange that most of those I have contacted either don't bother to respond at all or flatly state that the will not forward my offer to the seller! If I was a seller I would not want a broker to decide over what I get to see and what not.... or? do you guys feel differently?

Basically I don't think my offer is too bad, since I am prepared to accept asking prices up to 200K $ without negotiating but in return am asking for the seller to:
* Accept a roughly $ 50 K downpayment
* Accept a wonderfull (US-taged) car that has been restored to the tune of $ 80K for "trade in" - but only for another $ 50K (so, less than full value) and
* Extend some owner financing for the remainder to be paid within a reasonable timeframe.

Since I have been doing charters for the major part of my life, I have a huge clientele that really is only waiting for me to call them and say: "Hey I got a great boat again, lets go sailing!" and in addition there is a deal pending with a major TV station to actually produce a show with the boat playing a central role. The only "but" is, that there is no deal unless I have a boat, so I have to go for the above mentioned "creative financing" to make this happen.

Anyway: If any of you have a decent sized Cat for sale and are interested in working out some deal with me, - I'd be happy to be hearing from you!

[Factor]

Originally Posted by JustThinking

[I]
Speaking of brokers:
I find it rather strange that most of those I have contacted either don't bother to respond at all or flatly state that the will not forward my offer to the seller! If I was a seller I would not want a broker to decide over what I get to see and what not.... or? do you guys feel differently?

Basically I don't think my offer is too bad, since I am prepared to accept asking prices up to 200K $ without negotiating but in return am asking for the seller to:
* Accept a roughly $ 50 K downpayment
* Accept a wonderfull (US-taged) car that has been restored to the tune of $ 80K for "trade in" - but only for another $ 50K (so, less than full value) and
* Extend some owner financing for the remainder to be paid within a reasonable timeframe.

Cant understand why a broker wouldnt want to tell a client he had to take a car he may not want and hand the boat over on a time payment plan.