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Old 30-06-2012, 06:09   #481
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Well thats not how MSV Victoria or what ever their name is this week tell it.
Had meetings in their offices and on board during survey they said no way as they can not administer the rules properly.
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Old 30-06-2012, 06:31   #482
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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Originally Posted by dirkdig View Post
Well thats not how MSV Victoria or what ever their name is this week tell it.
Had meetings in their offices and on board during survey they said no way as they can not administer the rules properly.
USL Code is adopted largely by all states with some interpretational and operational differences state to state.
Every boat i've built (that was under USL Code) had to be operated by licensed operators only. I was never allowed to helm after handover/sea-trials/registration.
As a private owner, at least in Qld, you can only drive a non commercial boat of essentially any size/type.
Once surveyed/registered and insured you cannot be at the helm unless duly licensed.
The logic of this is that once the registration is displayed as commercial then there is an expectation that the vessel is being operated under the tenent of the registration. i.e. Trawler/Charter/Water-Taxi etc...
Unless it's changed that's how i've known it for many many years.
Only exception that i ever knew of was where a vessel was intended as a hire boat i.e. House boat, dory, dinghy or charter yacht.
Dont think Taxi's on the road can be used privately ,,, legally at least?
Cheers Frank
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Old 30-06-2012, 19:43   #483
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Thanks Frank,
Just as i was told
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Old 30-06-2012, 21:08   #484
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

I was building a 40 foot steel cat,
The disinformation that was floating around regarding size of vessel and tickets needed to drive them was unbelievable,

So I actually got onto the Marine Board here in Victoria, Just to clear the matter up Regarding my boat,
And their reply to me was,

With a Victortian recreational Boat licence, I could drive any thing up to and including a super tanker,
If I owned it and did not take paying passengers or used it for paid freight,

If I took a paid letter or parcel or a paid passenger for delivery, I would need all the relevant masters certificates applicable to the vessel.

Can you imagine driveing a super tanker on a recreational boat licence, Some of these laws are just beyond belief,

And you only need a licence, If it has a motor in it to drive it,
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Old 30-06-2012, 21:48   #485
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B
I was building a 40 foot steel cat,
The disinformation that was floating around regarding size of vessel and tickets needed to drive them was unbelievable,

So I actually got onto the Marine Board here in Victoria, Just to clear the matter up Regarding my boat,
And their reply to me was,

With a Victortian recreational Boat licence, I could drive any thing up to and including a super tanker,
If I owned it and did not take paying passengers or used it for paid freight,

If I took a paid letter or parcel or a paid passenger for delivery, I would need all the relevant masters certificates applicable to the vessel.

Can you imagine driveing a super tanker on a recreational boat licence, Some of these laws are just beyond belief,

And you only need a licence, If it has a motor in it to drive it,
ok lets all chip in and buy a super tanker and "own" western port and Port Phillip. Mr B are you a member of the MHCV? Went the my first meeting at the RSL the other night and they seem like a great bunch. Had a really good talk from 3 people re cruising the top end, the east coast and Bass strait... really good stuff.

Rgrds
Mick
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Old 30-06-2012, 21:58   #486
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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Originally Posted by Mick C View Post
ok lets all chip in and buy a super tanker and "own" western port and Port Phillip. Mr B are you a member of the MHCV? Went the my first meeting at the RSL the other night and they seem like a great bunch. Had a really good talk from 3 people re cruising the top end, the east coast and Bass strait... really good stuff.

Rgrds
Mick
I was a few years back, But I didnt appreciate the comments that I was building a wharfe with sails, Especially since it has a hull speed of 54

But they do have quite a few good blokes in the MHCV and full of good info,
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Old 30-06-2012, 23:51   #487
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr B View Post
I was building a 40 foot steel cat,
The disinformation that was floating around regarding size of vessel and tickets needed to drive them was unbelievable,

So I actually got onto the Marine Board here in Victoria, Just to clear the matter up Regarding my boat,
And their reply to me was,

With a Victortian recreational Boat licence, I could drive any thing up to and including a super tanker,
If I owned it and did not take paying passengers or used it for paid freight,

If I took a paid letter or parcel or a paid passenger for delivery, I would need all the relevant masters certificates applicable to the vessel.

Can you imagine driveing a super tanker on a recreational boat licence, Some of these laws are just beyond belief,

And you only need a licence, If it has a motor in it to drive it,
Precisely what i said in my post, as long as you don't use it for reward or gain i.e. surveyed etc....
A hull speed of 54 in your 40 foot cat, tell us more?
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Old 01-07-2012, 01:45   #488
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Precisely what i said in my post, as long as you don't use it for reward or gain i.e. surveyed etc....
A hull speed of 54 in your 40 foot cat, tell us more?
Being an Engineering Blacksmith by trade, I am a fully Qualified Practising Engineer Shipwright, as well as a lot of other things, as part of my Curiculum,
and building and repairing shipping all my life, and being thoroughly tought in trade school,
I started to build my steel sailing Cat to my own specs to do precisely what I wanted it to do,
Speed really wasnt an issue, I just wanted some thing that was impossible to sink, 8 Watertite Bulk heads, and each one will keep the boat on the surface by its self,
Some thing I could sit down on reefs and rocky beaches with out worrying too much about damage or getting holes punched in it, 3 mm plate will bend and stretch, And if I did get a hole in it, I could just run it up the beach, wait till the tide went out and weld a patch on it,
I could sail or motor for days with a hole in it, and not be worried about the hole, as the water will only enter a few feet being water tite at the top, the water cannot get into the hull.

I wanted to carry a small car on it and both my bikes, Jib crane on the forward deck, to get the car on and off,
I had one hull nearly finished in my front yard, when I noticed it had become very easy to build,
Then I started to doubt my own capability, Was I making a big mistake here some where, So I stopped building it and got on the internet and looked for different formula's and specifications trying to find my mistakes that I may have over looked,
Yes, I did find a mistake in my calculations, My Hull speed was out, It originally was 47, but correcting that mistake brought it up to 54.

I couldnt find any mistakes in my formula's, It just got better every time I recalculated it,
So Then I went back to my apprenticeship, What did they actually teach me,

In science, I built a steam engine and all its working parts, Then we built the gear box for it, and all its working parts and the gear ratio's, Then came the prop shaft and thru hulls, back then it was a packed gland, now we have sealed bearings and a wet box,
Then we designed the prop, made the mould, and learnt how to pour the Propeller, That was 6 metres in diameter,
No it wasnt a toy boat, we were professionals in our field, then we went over to the foundry and watched the moulders pour big moulds,
Victorian Railways workshops at Newport, Now closed down. But one of the steam hammers is still on display there in a paddock, I worked under that hammer when it was going, and made Railway train axles under it, amongst other forgings on the larger size.

So it ended up, no, there were no mistakes in my calculations,
A life time of watching other peoples boats going past while fishing with a boat load of shipwrights Etc,
We would tear their boat apart and amongst us we would put it back together so that it would sail or motor level the way it should be doing,
So the knowledge was in my brain all the time,

My boat was being built properly with all the bugs and mistakes in boat building missing,
I definately knew my **** when it came to building boats, I just didnt realize it at the time,

I never proceeded with it as I could not find a place to build it, close to Melbourne,
It is too big to transport, completed,
Yaringa was out as it had an 8 metre channel and I was 8 metres wide, They wouldnt let me drop it in the drink on the far side of the Marina, Greenies,
Then I bought my Gemini, and retired at the same time, and my steel one still sits there unfinished, Maybe one day I will get back to it,

This one I designed to go to the Kimberlys in, Life long dream, 3mm carbon steel plate, .26 tested,
17 ton fully loaded, 3.3 feet draught or one metre, 11,78 ton displacement, but to sink it to the Bridge deck level 114 ton, Unsinkable, 3 inch exposed steel keel, John Deere or similar Diesel motors, 28 inch props, 3 foot long by 2 foot high self alighning rudders, 1200 square foot,rectangular spinnaker, 750 square feet Main sail,
Speed on one motor, 37.5 knots at 1800 revs, 3000 litres of diesel in two tanks,
8 ton of the vessel is below the water line, 6 ton is on the gravitational centre line of the vessel, It is a very stiff boat
The displacement line and the planing line are the same, Plimsol line,
The bridge deck is 25 feet long and 20 feet wide, with 3 feet clear walkway right round,
Will self right in 5 metre waves, if you can get it to turn turtle in the first place, Has an 11 degree max heel,

I am getting old and I want to go to the Kimberlys before I am past it, So it will be in the Gemini next year,
The Gem will be fully repaired in a couple of months and back in the water, I will get taught to sail it properly, then I am off,

If only I had a few more dollars to spare, I would finish the steel one and take it, But wishfull thinking wont get me any where,

Cheers,
Brian,
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:04   #489
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Brian sorry, but i do doubt it, 37.5 knots,1 metre draught, 17 tonne loaded maybe 14 tonne lightship, using 28inch props and i'm understanding an engine speed of 1800 RPM (1:1 Ratio?) complete with a rig?

Self right i really not understanding how on the hull shape i'm imagining from your description?

Would like to hear/see more..

Cheers....
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Old 01-07-2012, 02:21   #490
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

On foils?
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Old 01-07-2012, 03:16   #491
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

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Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
On foils?
On Drugs?
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Old 07-07-2012, 00:44   #492
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
USL Code is adopted largely by all states with some interpretational and operational differences state to state.
Every boat i've built (that was under USL Code) had to be operated by licensed operators only. I was never allowed to helm after handover/sea-trials/registration.
As a private owner, at least in Qld, you can only drive a non commercial boat of essentially any size/type.
Once surveyed/registered and insured you cannot be at the helm unless duly licensed.
The logic of this is that once the registration is displayed as commercial then there is an expectation that the vessel is being operated under the tenent of the registration. i.e. Trawler/Charter/Water-Taxi etc...
Unless it's changed that's how i've known it for many many years.
Only exception that i ever knew of was where a vessel was intended as a hire boat i.e. House boat, dory, dinghy or charter yacht.
Dont think Taxi's on the road can be used privately ,,, legally at least?N
Cheers Frank
Sorry for not getting back sooner. This is a "murky" area. Clearly Gspeak is using a commercially registered and surveyed vessel for recreational usage, presumably without being the holder of a commercial ticket. I believe that this is legal as long as he does not undertake charter operations.
I have commonly been on recreational trips on commercial fishing vessels, one stipulation was that the commercial licence letters are covered over for such
usage. Commercial fishing vessels in Queensland ar not allowed to carry spearfishing equipment for example, so in order not to break the law such trips were purely recreational, even though the vessels were commercial and surveyed.
To complicate matters, as of next year new recreational marine licence holders in Queensland will be restricted to vessels under 12 metres, unless they obtain another licence after undertaking further training and logged sea time. So there goes the supertanker idea!
Cheers
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Old 07-07-2012, 02:42   #493
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Damn lol....
Hey do you know if our marine licences that are included into our motor vehicle licence are availible in hard copy?

It gets really hard convincing people in foreign countries that our car licence covers our marine licence as well even though its not written thereon???
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Old 07-07-2012, 03:35   #494
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

I'm sorry if I have taken this topic off topic .... but I believe it has bearing on anybody else considering buying a boat in 1F registration from a charter company for operation in Queensland.

Just to make it all clear. I have no intention (& never had any intention) of operating our Lagoon outside of the regulations. When I bought the boat from a charter company it was expedient at the time to just transfer the existing 1F registration as is. I also thought that if at any time I decided to sell it that it might be a good thing for prospective purchasers or if I ever wanted to put it back into a charter fleet.

However, I have spent too much of my time & money getting the Lagoon in a state that I'm happy with to want to charter to other people. In fact, it was only when I made enquiries with MSQ about changing the registration to recreational, that I realised that I was entitled to use it as recreational if I filled out the log book to say it was recreational use for every time I took it out.

See following:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/q...g/tosr2004490/

TRANSPORT OPERATIONS (MARINE SAFETY) REGULATION 2004 - SECT 64

64 Use of commercial or fishing ship for private recreational purposes
(1) This section applies if the owner of a registered commercial or fishing ship intends the ship to be used for genuine private recreational purposes by the owner or a person nominated by the owner.

(2) Before the ship is used for recreational purposes, the owner must state in the ship's records—

(a) the date and time when the recreational use of the ship starts; and
(b) if a nominated person is to use the ship—the name of the nominated person.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

(3) The following provisions apply for the period of the recreational use—

(a) the ship is taken to be registered as a recreational ship;
(b) the provisions of this regulation about recreational ships and their operation apply to the ship;
(c) the provisions of this regulation about the operation of the ship as a commercial ship or fishing ship, do not apply to the ship;
(d) the provisions of this regulation about a condition of registration applying to the ship, do not apply to the ship.
(4) After the recreational use of the ship ends, the owner must state in the ship's records the date and time when the use ended.

Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.


Quote:
Originally Posted by tuskie View Post
Sorry for not getting back sooner. This is a "murky" area. Clearly Gspeak is using a commercially registered and surveyed vessel for recreational usage, presumably without being the holder of a commercial ticket. I believe that this is legal as long as he does not undertake charter operations.
I have commonly been on recreational trips on commercial fishing vessels, one stipulation was that the commercial licence letters are covered over for such
usage. Commercial fishing vessels in Queensland ar not allowed to carry spearfishing equipment for example, so in order not to break the law such trips were purely recreational, even though the vessels were commercial and surveyed.
To complicate matters, as of next year new recreational marine licence holders in Queensland will be restricted to vessels under 12 metres, unless they obtain another licence after undertaking further training and logged sea time. So there goes the supertanker idea!
Cheers
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Old 08-07-2012, 01:25   #495
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Re: Catamarans - Current Market Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagoon4us View Post
Brian sorry, but i do doubt it, 37.5 knots,1 metre draught, 17 tonne loaded maybe 14 tonne lightship, using 28inch props and i'm understanding an engine speed of 1800 RPM (1:1 Ratio?) complete with a rig?

Self right i really not understanding how on the hull shape i'm imagining from your description?

Would like to hear/see more..

Cheers....
Hears some thing for you to think about,

8 ton catamaran's that do in excces of 300 KPH
6000 ton mono hulls that do 50 knots with ease,
80000 ton ships that do 30 knots,
37.5 knots is relatively slow,
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